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Naval Service General Discussion - Fleet, Manpower, Policy

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Rhinos are manual and not stabilised for a bow position, aren't they?



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭tippilot


    Unless of course said use involves actually hitting something.

    There's a reason any live firing of the Rh202 you'll see involves very short bursts. It's a dumb bomb Vs smart bomb scenario.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭thomil


    Very stupid question here:

    Could it be possible that the P70s are meant to be a test bed for a remote gun system that is currently not in use? As in “evaluate the system’s performance before placing a wider order and rolling it out to the fleet at large”? Given the apparent restrictions on the Defence Forces’ current remote controlled gun systems with regards to naval use, at least if I’ve read this thread correctly, that would make quite a bit of sense to mine. Besides, the acquisition of the P70s would have given the opportunity to get such a gun system with relatively minimal scrutiny, since a lot of money had to be allocated to the purchase, transfer and refitting of the ships anyway.

    As I said, this is likely a very stupid idea, but I’ve seen stranger things happen…

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No such thing as a stupid question, unless you're Jonnybigwallet of course.

    But yeah I understood the plan was for a 30mm stabilised system with remote fire control and all that good stuff. But any such system would already be proven in the wider market and there wouldn't be a huge proving exercise required for use in the fleet.

    Right now the P50s and 60s have the only armaments they are going to have in their service life, probably, and there wouldn't be much cause to make a change unless a missile system was to be introduced, which a) isn't on any cards and b) likely wouldn't fit without removing some current utility being removed.

    The NS already has plenty of experience with electronic fire-control weapons in the OTO Melara 76mm on the above ships, so all in all, the adoption of a remote 30mm system for the P70s wouldn't be a complex process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Navy doing a reruitment tour. I hope every port they visit they have a leaving cert classes coming in for a visit.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0505/1447427-navy-recruitment-drive/



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    better 4/5th year classes I would say, if it’s leaving cert unless you get them early in the year many will have already picked their likely third level/employment areas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Fair play for them getting out there, but if past performance is a guide to future progress, then the ambition to go from 730 odd personnel now, to 2,000 in 2028, is beyond fanciful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If they want a 2k Navy they badly need to get the East Coast base up and running and even that North western base. The better geographical spread the better chance of getting personal.

    If they had a base in Donegal they would have no problem getting crews from Sligo to Derry.

    The 28th Battlion is proof it can be done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Honestly, I'm fairly confident of the opposite tbh, its going to need some amount of personnel per base, and in Dublin you are still going to face the cost of living arguments. Will it generate any significant increase… Guess we will see in the 2030's.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The state could easily lease or buy an apartment block for personal to live in to help with the cost of living. It would be a lot cheaper than repairing 18th century building.

    Do you think Dun Laioghre is not a runner?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Ferry Terminal hasn't been sold, some of the internal space has been leased, the Council retain ownership.

    Besides, I have it on the good authority of a certain Minister of State that the naval station is a lock-in for Dún Laoghaire, and will be announced at an organised visit of LÉ Aoibhinn, when she is operational later in the year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    no it won’t for a simple reason…It won’t end with just one block for a naval facility, the GRA have already been calling for it for the Dublin based members, how long before blue flue if the NS got such a facility and they didn’t? How long before the teachers unions or the nurses or any of the other far more powerful lobby groups demanded the same? At which point the costs dwarf any value of putting a facility on the East Coast. No government is going to open that can of worms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The state should look at buying a full developments for front line workers such as HSE,AGS and Defence Forces starting out in there early lifes. It be simply a perk of the Job



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    The state has been trying to get out of legacies like that for decades (see the housing in the Curragh) besides which that’s a good way to blow a lot of money cause it won’t end at “frontline” workers, not to mention even within the sections you have mentioned where do you draw the line? Is it just newly qualified personnel? A pay threshold? Whether a person is married or not? Family accommodation? Support staff? Etc etc etc.

    Either the state becomes a landlord for a huge chunk of the civil/public service or you have rolling industrial action as every section and subsection of the groups make demands on and on. And then you will get the push back from the non public servants…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    That you've been told about.

    The decision has been agreed between the government parties. DoD, DF and NS will be informed when at the appropriate moment.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I haven't a clue, I don't know how much of the detail has been worked out, but I do know the Council executive is examining the matter of competing demands on the 1845 built Coastguard station, either as accommodation and administration for the Navy, or as part of the national centre of excellence for sailing, which the Council is also anxious to secure with Sport Ireland.

    Whatever the outcome I do know there are plenty of options to berth the P70s, as the draft of the central Marina is 4.0 metres and the 70s only need 2.9, so the possibility of using that in much the same way the Revenue Cutters do, certainly exists. It wouldn't take much imagination to isolate a section of the Marina and secure it appropriately, if one of the older piers isn't to be utilised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I did surely. The combined torque of all of the boats secured on the various jetties, at max capacity, far exceeds that of one 340t vessel.

    In any case, as can be seen from this image, the outer jetties have greater capacity and draft. I recall several superyachts berthing at the western end down the years, such as the Phoenix, which though shorter than a P70 at 40m, tipped the scale at 385t and had a much higher centre of gravity with all her luxury appointments.

    It is not a problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Will_I_Regret


    You're only a driver though. I don't think you need to worry about stuff like that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Obviously the Carlisle Pier is available for secure resupply and any other task requiring a large dockside.

    Who knows, maybe the Carlisle itself will be repurposed as a naval station pier. It was certainly suggested many years ago, around the time the masterplan to accommodate the HSS ferries was being drawn up.

    As I say, I'm privy to the decision that has been made, not to details that haven't yet even been agreed between the harbour authority and the Defence hierarchy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    P64 parked up in Dún Laoghaire today is it a sign?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    would assume nothing will happen until the IPV is operational.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I see marquees and such erected on the pier, probably part of the recruitment events around the coast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Yes indeed, I'm since informed the marquees are part of the shore based setup for tendering the Cruise Ships.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    perhaps, however I wonder if politics will push for something earlier, I imagine they will want it visible before the next GE.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    No heavy weapons fitted yet? Are they going to just go with 12.7mm?



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭mupper2


    To be honest do they need anything much heavier?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Not like they're about to take on the Bismark!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I guess to wargame her role, she could come up against drug and people traffickers, in MV Matthew or yacht Brime type scenarios. We also hear of homemade submarines involved in the drugs trade too. and in case where the smugglers are becoming better armed, there's no substitute for a big deck gun with remote FC



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Are you expecting a homemade submarine in the Irish Sea? Or are we going to be threatening RN subs?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Well the former, obviously.

    Drug trafficking mother ships like MV Matthew hand off smaller shipments to yachts and trawlers, as we know, and increasingly to "narco-subs". These vessels can cost a few million dollars to build, but are a canny investment by the drug cartels, as they can return hundred of millions in sales, per vessel.

    Examples of these subs that are capable of crossing the Atlantic, have already been discovered.

    And so, we can rule nothing out in terms of what the IPVs may encounter. The more nation states invest in security and intelligence around smuggling and trafficking, the more criminals invest in turn. Its a cat and mouse game as old as seafaring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Emm....The last time I looked, these narco subs are not equipped with torpedoes, deck guns etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Of course they aren't, but the banditos inside them carry small arms.

    The threat of a remote FC deck gun will end any potential blackguarding before it begins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I see on the Navys Social Media Eithnes last day is tomorrow as she heads for the scrapyard



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    -Alfred, the Lord Tennyson.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I was down in the Naval Base a few times in the past and each time when i spoke to POs about eithne they always said in its day it was one of the best naval ships built with world class technolgy onboard. Was that true or was it just old lads with very fond memories?



  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭zone 1


    reports of another russian sub of our west coast again france UK and norway sending aircraft during the week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    HSA were on the naval base at somestage i presume they could not go in without been invited?

    Would they have been there due to the external contractors and visiting them happened to see other issues and naval service are just following there advice?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41414152.html?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2qh3L2-5bYKsvxdC7xVGO_sSsJKj4aHHuG4guZaX5No4pHyBNMFQWNAMs

    Post edited by roadmaster on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    HSA can visit any work place, on demand, but usually by appointment and reasonable engagement.

    Secure locations are a matter for local rules, but the canteen wouldn't count as a secure location, so they are there quite reasonably.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    bars of soap and damp are the least of the H&S issues when you consider it is effectively beside a former toxic dump, contaminated former industrial site and buildings that are falling down …



  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    I am referring to the dilapidation in particular some of the old storehouses of 6 only two I believe to be in use, the other four were until lately either in burnt out ruins #4;or rotting away:9-11. IMHO it is hard to think of a work ‘campus’ where this level of wrack and ruin would be tolerated. I will acknowledge recent work under way or,planned on some of these:but remediation and rebuilding has taken decades at this stage with a considerable amount remaining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Youve done your homework there Doh!

    Thanks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    They have finally lost the plot in the dail. I wonder is she just confused between meters and feet as the MRV will be between 120 & 150 meters and 600 feet is close to 200 meters.

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/half-kilometre-warship-query-baffles-irish-parliament/



  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭mupper2


    On one hand, goofy on the other, good she's actually asking the question…



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,022 ✭✭✭sparky42


    still wondering why UKDJ made an article about it, I mean I’d put money on some strange/stupid/WTF questions/comment from MPs in the commons.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    So did Deputy Murphy get confused with the metric system?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭davetherave




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Some one is giving her very poorly worded questions such as the Hercules C-17 military aircraft.

    Whats the end game with these weird questions such as the A380?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭thomil


    My first thought when reading this was whether the Ministry of Defence had acquired the plans for HMS Habbakuk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,428 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The very best thing to do with Catherine Murphy, is ignore her.



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