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Plans to end direct rail services between Wexford and Dublin

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,094 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the bone shaker 29 was only ever on that service as it runs to dundalk.

    apparently that service is to be split at connolly, so if there is a will and a want, it can be swapped with the ICR on the gorey.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,345 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I never understood this "boneshaker" complaint.

    I have honestly never heard it as a complaint outside of the odd thread like this. The vast majority of people outside I train enthusiast thread are not even contemplating what kind of train they are getting when they decide to get one or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,094 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    yes it will, frequencies would be increased direct to dublin a little bit later once rolling stock would be freed up.
    i understand it very well, essentially do nothing or do something to make it look like something is being done when it isn't being done in reality, a swapping of deck chairs.

    but in reality regardless of what some studdy suggests, there is a better option on the table that is deliverable and can deliver way more then a ridiculous shuttle service that could not be operated at an hourly frequency in reality, and that is a little less frequent but direct service that could be operated at a 2 hourly frequency which is more realistic.
    the shuttle is essentially a do nothing service while pretending to do something, a varient of the failed and discredited no growth model imposed on a couple of franchises in the uk, the previous northern rail franchise and the former wales and borders franchise as examples.
    a slightly less frequent direct service on the other hand is very much doing something and really improving the service.
    there will always be space to fit the direct service in because greystones is a very very long way off requiring anything more then an half hour to 20 minute frequency.
    if we get to the stage where there is no room for direct services from wexford, then we are at the stage where there is no option but to build more infrastructure as removing rosslare services would free up very little in reality even at an increased frequency as there will always need to be room for maintenence vehicles, and the large amount of ECS movements that would be needed to sustain the shuttle anyway as due to diagramming and maintenence/servicing etc the same 2 trains won't be on the line for the whole day anyway, not even near it because none of those will be changing to suit this ridiculous plan.
    increasing the frequency of the line with a shuttle would not revolutionise this line, would not bring any real capacity improvements and would not lead to any real growth but more likely contraction as the benefits of actually taking the train would be lost and it would make the service pointless.
    there would be a small few who might use it certainly, but in reality it would end up with actual low usage and actually would be under thread for genuine reasons rather then the current ideological/cultural ones.
    irish rail won't be able to wash their hands of the line, those days are gone and people are becoming more and more aware of irish rail's nonsense thanks to campaign groups.
    climate change also helps even though it brings it's own challenges for certain parts of the line and wexford is getting no more motor way apart from perhapse the bit into rosslare port so given that network is full to beyond capacity the rail line will remain.

    Post edited by end of the road on

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,094 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    sure, but many would be pissed off when one of these things turn up, they just don't talk about it and maybe don't specifically look out for what they might get if they book online.

    the 29s are bone shakers though and always have been heaps of crap.

    sure, they are reliable and are good people movers on the suburban services they are designed for but on anything long they are dreadful, a bike would be more appealing.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I can only tell you what I hear from others in my area who regularly commute to Dublin. It's a nickname I picked up from the other commuters who were doing it longer than me. A silly one as it isn't shaky at all, just a bit old and grubby, no tables for working on the commute (the few tables are too narrow to use for many). Up until 4 months ago the 6am train smelled of urine across two carriages and the heating was routinely broken in at least one carriage over winter. It is slower than the ICR and therefore, while only minor, is a longer trip. I have met plenty of people who tried it once and have switched to WB. Personally I go up so often that a bus seat isn't feasible for that many hours a day, a train allows movement, stretching etc. So you are right, they don't contemplate it the first time, but they do the second time. Chatting to a CSO on Monday and they were annoyed that the 5 carriage ICRs were going/gone as they would be ideal for the Wexford service. Enough room to make the crowd that gets on a little later manageable.

    This said, my view is still a switchover in Bray using platform 3 but this hasn't even been looked at. Greystones leads to massive delays with the lifts and those with mobility issues, whereas the Bray switch effectively negates these. Have two 5 carriages going up and down. The main issue then is servicing, and I wouldn't know anything about the regularity of that to say anything. The direct service to Connolly is a bit nonsense considering it gets caught behind the DART anyway. but switching earlier than Bray is a pain. It could overtake the resting Greystones DART, not stop, go straight through to Bray. Disembark and wait for that DART to come through. Then it could go straight back out carrying the next Greystones load.

    Like I said, not a train fanatic, just ideas from a person who uses it regularly. If I had the money, I'd drive to Gorey every morning and get it from there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,345 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I assume a "boneshaker" is something like what's on the Limerick to LJ line or Limerick to Ennis (not Galway)

    I have never ever heard someone complain about the switch at LJ on to some "crappy" train and have never heard it as a reason not to commute by train from Ennis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,752 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    For correctness it is a 29000 set - it is used simply because the 4 car ICR would not be able to cope with the loading on that service (the 05:35 ex-Rosslare) in the morning. It has greater capacity as it has more standing room.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Yep, the few times they forget to switch over the last train, we get the ICR and it is difficult to get off in Dun Laoghaire or BlackRock, but the increased comfort is worth it. Skipping Greystones and using a 5 carriage would solve this though as that is when it becomes truly unusable. Dundalk users from Greystones could get the DART ahead of it, and then swap over at Connolly, it would be quicker through to Bray, Bray is typically clearer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭acceletor


    Most stations aren't all stations. Rail infrastructure doesn't exist solely to serve the commuter.

    Wexford is a good example of this. The census is flawed in my opinion, as a dull day in November does not give a full picture of the usage of the Rosslare line.

    Also on the numbers quoted. It suggests that Rathdrum has more passengers than Arklow and not far off Wicklow.

    I would politely suggest this is nonsense and throws into question the entire census.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Having gotten the Limerick to LJ train a small number of times, it appeared to be a far nicer train but also one you were on for a far shorter time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    the elephant in the room of this service is the fragility of the alignment. Trapped against the shoreline until Wicklow, including several rounds of rock armouring at the Murrough, then turning west through wetlands. At some point Bray Head may need new tunnelling to once again retreat from cliff face instability. This is already an expensive issue for IE but if the Irish Sea warms and/or rises as science tells us we should expect, the battering the sea front will take is likely to cause significant breaches.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Rathdrum is one of the busiest stations in the morning, both for the Gorey 1st train and the Rosslare 1st train, it is in effect where the train fills all the seats 3 of the 5 days a week from September to May. Due to the speed of the line, people often realise with the Rosslare 1st train, that driving will get you there ahead of rush hour in regards leaving from anywhere before Arklow, but costs a bomb. During school term time, Wexford station is far busier on the second train, and the afternoon returning trains servicing a lot of secondary school students going back from town but WB has alleviated this with the local routes in recent years but there are always 40 or 50 there. During summer it is day trippers from Rosslare Strand mainly. During term time, college students are there Monday and Friday (Friday is always over packed on every returning train, except the first one, all day long). Many work from home Monday and Friday which means the Friday train up is full but not busy, but that is the only day it is truly not busy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,583 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Rathdrum is not nor never has been busier than Arklow, Gorey or within an asses roar of Wicklow.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    In fairness it is pretty busy in the summer.

    There are a stack of people who spend their summer in Wexford in Mobile homes. Rather than driving, they often get the train up and down and get a family member to collect them (usually from Gorey)

    I didn't believe this myself until I witnessed it.

    Particularly teens going up and down from Wexford to Dublin. It's our version of the LGV they run to the Alps during the winter months 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,682 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Yup, you're talking huge money to bore through that.

    That being said, it offers an opportunity to increase the loading on that part of the track.

    I've said it multiple times, there's gonna need to be a huge political push to sort out the rail network here and bite the bullet of the costs.

    Double and Quad tracking is common on mainland EU as it Electrification and Double deck rolling stock.

    I've often thought we could do with HS Rail, but Gravity models seem to suggest otherwise (Maybe Belfast/Dublin/Cork)

    Regardless, we seem to be way behind.

    In relation to money, the portion of rail between Kilbarrack and Raheny needs to be redone.. "Badly". The community liaison officer only told me this week they have finally been given funding for it. (waiting years apparently). So if it takes that long to replace worn out rails (Basic maintenance) imagine how long a serious project like double tracking Greystones via a new tunnel would take.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I can only tell you what I see in the morning, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, from September to May, it is on par with Gorey and Arklow if not busier for the first train. Now don't forget, all 3 have had their first train already but even on that, the few times I have gotten it, Rathdrum and Arklow are on par, but Gorey is no different than Enniscorthy or Wexford. Home working means the morning trains on Friday (and Monday to a lesser extent) are substantially quieter. You are right about Wicklow, far more there. Greystones is absolutely mental, over full Tue to Thur. Again for Greystones, bypass it, the DART it overtakes is empty. Either overtake and continue the run or overtake and stop at Bray at platform 3, have a DART waiting and then the Greystones one after will not get overpacked. I realise there are driver and stock issues but none of this is rocket science but again, not a train buff so there are probably other issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    I choose the time I leave work in order to avoid certain train types. It's a massive difference in standing most of the way, or getting a seat due to the different train layouts



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,345 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Oh I would understand that alright but this idea that any train in Ireland is a "boneshaker" is pure hyperbole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I do the same, but the opposite to the last few posts. I used to get the 8:20 Enterprise from Drogheda to Connolly but it’s often standing room only by then. Rather than me standing on a bad knee (torn meniscus) for 40 minutes, I started getting the 7:58 commuter instead. It at least guarantees me a seat and gets in around the same time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,776 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Not by the classic definition l, but the difference is night and day. One one had there is a 4 carriage train of short carriages, few seats, smells of fumes, is extremely loud inside and occasionally one can't see out the windows to know where to get off. On the other hand, I can get an intercity train with plenty of seats, doesn't smell, quiet enough to be able to listen to podcasts. It's night and day.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    It's just a nickname for sh1t in comparison, I don't think anyone thinks it's genuinely a bineshaker



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭Glaceon


    I used to hear that term used to describe the Cravens in the latter of their service lives. But at the same time, I do understand the dislike for the CAF 29k units. They’re very reliable and excellent people movers, but also very loud and not overly comfortable. Fine for a jaunt to Balbriggan or even Drogheda, but I definitely wouldn’t want one to Sligo, Belfast or Rosslare. I couldn’t count the amount of times I’ve been greeted by the smell of vomit when I got on one.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    They finally cleaned the two too Rosslare so the smell of Urine is finally gone. For how long, who knows. You get used to the noise but it isn't comfortable. The ICRs are simply glorious in comparison.

    Train packed today on the midday one with 300 minimum on a 3 carriage going to PINK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,345 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well it's been claimed here that it's a barrier to train use in Ireland which I just don't believe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,094 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    it would be a barrier to an extent to be fair, but how much of a one would be hard to quantify, and even then it would depend on routes.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    It definitely is, I considered switching my annual ticket to Wexford bus when I had to get in earlier. The train is just to reliable but if I was better paid, I'd be driving to Gorey every morning rather than getting it for Wexford. The difference is immense and well worth it. My wife only gets the train now if the kids are going with her as she despises the 29000s (is that the right name). I opted out of WB as I couldn't take that long a journey without moving around / stretching, but less regular commuters I am sure would be fine with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭Glaceon




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