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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Metro and suburban train network. Cycling lanes network.

    All tied in with proper urban planning too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭cgcsb




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Yep, difference being they have them already. And going back decades for the s-train lines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Can I ask people to remember for a moment what Ireland was like before the 1990s, before complaining about not having the same infrastructure as Denmark, a country that has been well off for over a century.

    The Copenhagen S-Train service dates to the 1920s (rail electrification started in 1926 in Denmark), their metro was started in 1992, a time when we were still broke. There's an interesting "what if" if CIÉ had used the newly abundant electricity resource from Ardnacrusha back in the 1930s to start electrification, but it's all hypothetical and off topic.

    The truth is, in terms of available budget, we have had just 30 years to achieve a level of infrastructure that it took them 100 to get to: It's not surprising we are "failing", if that's the goal you're setting. Complaining about how slow things are going now is okay (Copenhagen Metro has lots of delays too), but blaming this country for not having had 70 extra years of prosperity isn't going to produce any kind of constructive conversation…



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    I think the biggest issue people have is the seemingly endless planning hell projects are mired in.

    When compared to the extremely rapid expansion of the motorway network it either makes you despair that these rail investments weren't happening in the same planning climate that allowed those to happen or makes you suspicious that 'people in charge' are using the rules to slow projects they personally are opposed to...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,304 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Its not just PT infrastructure though, everything takes longer nowadays. There's delays all along the chain in building. There are many reasons to this from buearacracy to supply chain issues, also Brexit hasn't helped either where materials are taking longer to get here, in the case of suppliers who used to lump Ireland and UK as one distribution hub.

    In a time where the pace of life has got faster, the irony is building projects take longer, from planning to completion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,870 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    And not just before the 1990s but including the 1990s, tax evasion was rampant in the well to do sections of the country.

    Taxes were for the plebs.


    We still could have done so much more.


    Corruption was a way of life in taxation and in planning.


    The Maynooth line for example should have been electrified after the existing DART line and it all tied in with planning.

    Instead, we had a criminal mafia getting Lucan rezoned and we ended up with a massive area of Dublin mainly dependent on private cars for commuting.

    Could go on about a lot more, but I’ll leave it there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭ArcadiaJunction


    You are sounding like a "Conspiracy Theorist".

    SPOILER ALERT: the delays are designed to kill the rail projects off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭spillit67


    The rapid expansion of the motorways only came years after loads of mistakes were made. I’d also add that the M50 was planned in 1971, started construction in 1987 and was “completed” in 2005. Except of course it wasn’t as it was already over capacity and needed another 5 years for more lanes to be added.

    If you go back to the 2000s and the discourse, a lot of it was on planning and waste on the roads up until near the end of the boom when we had got things right. We lost that internal competency and need to get it back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    We also had a lot more money in real terms back then than we do now.

    The late 1990s and 2000s saw a lot of expensive work on the rail network - it's just that the things that cost money aren't always obvious to passengers: one bit of track looks just like another, after all. From the 1990s onward, the whole network was relaid with continously-welded track, for instance. Later, there was more visible new works like the Kildare route project, track improvement and level crossing removals across the whole network, reopening WRC, reopening of Cork local services to Midleton, the complete replacement of passenger rolling stock on national services.

    As bad as rail was, it wasn't as far below acceptable standards as our roads were. The roads were a more pressing need, and the road network is much bigger, so it cost more to fix, but rail did have a lot of money spent on it. Most of that went towards clearing a backlog of necessary jobs, but just as we started to get to actual expansion, the money ran out.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we stick to Metrolink, please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,100 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://x.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1803468691222241357

    Sinn Féin spokesperson on Transport and Communications, Martin Kenny TD, has welcomed the positive response of daa chief Kenny Jacobs in relation to Sinn Féin’s proposal to establish a rail link between Clongriffin and Dublin airport

    lol, you can only laugh at this stage



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I have been predicting this. Delay Metrolink, build the Clongriffin link, and when nobody uses it, cancel Metrolink saying it isn't needed. That is the SF way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,100 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    and soon no greens in government. still though, to cancel at this stage would surely be totally unacceptable by whoever gets into power.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Clongriffin link is nothing other than an idea. Zero actual planning has been done. It would take years to get it through planning into construction. The Metrolink will be under construction well before then.

    And if SF are in the next government, they'll need at least one of the current government parties to be in coalition with them to form that government. Seeing as those are the parties pushing Metrolink, it's not getting dropped.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,632 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    You can read the actual statement by Sinn Fein if you're worried they'd drop Metrolink, because I think it suggests the opposite:

    It is my long-held view that passengers, workers, and commuters need a DART service operating from the airport to provide a another form of public transport – along with Metrolink when it arrives

    This was something that daa CEO Kenny Jacobs said today would be welcomed by the airport to compliment the services currently on offer via bus, and expected to be offered by Metrolink in the future.

    As with the Metrolink, and many other infrastructure before it, the successive Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael governments have failed to plan for population and passenger growth. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There's an implication in that first paragraph that Metrolink isn't going to arrive any time soon, and that this link would be in place before it.

    Given that such a spur is starting from zero, that statement shows an astounding level of ignorance of why projects take so long in this country.

    Too many of SF's policies seem come from that guy in the pub who has the answer to everything... "waste of bloody money spending forty billion on that metro when they could put the DART in to the Airport for twenty quid, sure it's only a bit of track"



  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭spillit67


    I think you’re very naive if you don’t see where this is coming from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,632 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    That implication is just standard politics, nothing new. But importantly, what I really see is another stated commitment to the necessity of public transport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,304 ✭✭✭prunudo


    we need to separate big infrastructure from politicians who only seem to think in 5 year stints.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭VeryOwl


    It's no surprise SF sniff an opportunity to chuck out an expensive Metro and replace it with a cheap and cheerful fantasy DART link. This is what happens when projects are allowed to go stale and rot on the shelf.

    But it's not unique to SF.

    Just have to hope force of necessity gets this one to progress. If we can just get one of these big projects over the hump it'll transform our attitude towards public transport investment and make them less vulnerable to political tampering. Like the motorways, the public will demand new metro and new DART. We've seen a bit of that already with Luas.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The metro hasn't been allowed go stale and rot on the shelf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Pretty much this is what I have been saying all along. Sinn Fein get into government in early 2025, ABP approve the railway order for Metrolink. Sinn Fein order a pause to consider other options. One year later in 2026 they approve work to build a spur from Clongriffin and put the Metro on the long finger until the country can afford it.

    We have seen it before when governments change and populists get in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    And the facts on the ground are car dependent sprawl in south 'Lucan'. Quickest return for least bucks planning.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Again, SF will need one of FF or FG (at a minimum) to form a government. Currently it's looking like they'll be no bigger after the election than they are now. They will not have the power to long finger Metrolink.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I will still be voting Green because I wouldn't trust a SF/FF government on this.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think the idea that Metrolink is merely a connection for Airport to City Centre should be countered with the facts that the Metrolink is so much more and will transform PT in the north part of Dublin, and grant huge connectivity to those outside Dublin by the Dart connection.

    The Gov [FF/FG/Greens] need to start pushing it as a link from Swords/Airport/DCU/Cross Guns/Dart plus/ Mater/OCS/Tara/SSG and connection to GL to Sandyford.

    It will operate long hours as much as needed as it is driverless, and could operate 24/7 if required.

    Once the Luas started operating, it was over-subscribed and ceased to be the white elephant that the Donnehy and Nesbit school of economics had predicted. That prediction is currently being pushed by those same retired economists aided by the IT, plush a few misguided politicians who should know better, despite any vested interest they might have.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I still don't think this makes any sense. If you have the railway order and you are the one that gets shovels in the ground, then you are the one who gets the credit for it ultimately.

    The country can afford it today and there will be zero appreciable benefit from cancelling it. I get being concerned, but I think this is undue pessimism



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,333 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I think politically the one who gets the feel good credit is the one that cuts the ribbon. Whilst people like posters here that have an interest might know the truth whoever is around in the day of opening will be the ones that get to bask in the glory



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yes, the politician with the scissors on opening day is the one who takes credit… even if it's just credit for not killing the project.

    Being mindful that discussion of the electoral chances of individual parties or groupings is completely off topic here, I'd just say that I can see no statistically likely government in which a majority of members would oppose Metrolink. I think that this project is safe on that front.



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