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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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    #34322
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ireland v Scotland 2020, that's a significant number of changes over a 4 year period

    Forwards

    • 1 Cian Healy
    • 2 Rob Herring
    • 3 Tadhg Furlong
    • 4 Iain Henderson
    • 5 James Ryan
    • 6 CJ Stander
    • 7 Josh van der Flier
    • 8 Caelan Doris

    Backs

    • 9 Conor Murray
    • 10 Jonathan Sexton (Captain)
    • 11 Jacob Stockdale
    • 12 Bundee Aki
    • 13 Garry Ringrose
    • 14 Andrew Conway
    • 15 Jordan Larmour

    Replacements

    • 16 Ronan Kelleher
    • 17 Dave Kilcoyne
    • 18 Andrew Porter
    • 19 Devin Toner
    • 20 Peter O’Mahony
    • 21 John Cooney
    • 22 Ross Byrne
    • 23 Robbie Henshaw

    and in 2024

    Forwards

    • 1 Andrew Porter
    • 2 Dan Sheehan
    • 3 Tadhg Furlong
    • 4 Joe McCarthy
    • 5 Tadhg Beirne
    • 6 Peter O’Mahony (Captain)
    • 7 Josh van der Flier
    • 8 Caelan Doris

    Backs

    • 9 Jamison Gibson-Park
    • 10 Jack Crowley
    • 11 James Lowe
    • 12 Bundee Aki
    • 13 Robbie Henshaw
    • 14 Calvin Nash
    • 15 Hugo Keenan(Larmour did come in last min due to injury)

    Replacements

    • 16 Rónan Kelleher
    • 17 Cian Healy
    • 18 Finlay Bealham
    • 19 Ryan Baird
    • 20 Jack Conan
    • 21 Conor Murray
    • 22 Harry Byrne
    • 23 Garry Ringrose



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    #34323
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282390#Comment_122282390

    Farrell will for Autumn, Easterby is for EI which I guess you meant



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    #34324
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,311 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Some of Coombes Stats

    https://twitter.com/CaolanSRugby/status/1803090447545356519?s=19



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    #34325
    AdamD
    Registered Users Posts: 12,621 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    'Presented without comment', alright yeah.



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    #34326
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281874#Comment_122281874

    Yeah, I was thinking that's what would make sense. The RWC will be three years away when the tour takes place (compared to one year away for the last EI tour) so in terms of development for the World Cup in selection you can give more weighting to potential compared to last time.

    They obviously don't want to handicap the provinces in the URC, and it's diminishing gains anyway if they select someone whose already been on the last EI tour or in Ireland camp. The coaches have less to learn about them, and the players aren't going to get much new from it.

    Also this tour can be used as replacement gametime for squad players who would have seen more action when there were more games in the league season. It's good practice for Easterby too with him set to take the reins while Farrell's involved with the Lions.

    How many players who are making the matchday squad for their province will be taken? I can only see it being a handful - Wilson, Prendergast, Devine. Maybe there won't be any, with the thinking being if they're getting good exposure in the URC it's better not to disrupt that.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #34327
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283100#Comment_122283100

    Presented without comment should say "presented without analysis" - for the reasons I went into yesterday.

    These pure volume stats are not in and of themselves all that impressive to me (or it would appear to the Ireland coaching staff).

    There is no point in carrying the ball over 200 times if you're only carrying it for 2m per carry on average.



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    #34328
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122282687#Comment_122282687

    Anyone not retired from that first teams still in irish squads 😂 t



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    #34329
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    In fact their all likely still in matchday 23s when healthy



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    #34330
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I wonder would they consider Stockdale on the right wing this July. Nash is good, but he's more going to hold his own at this level than impose himself.

    Being left-footed would actually be an advantage when kicking to touch on the right side of the field if you have enough time. How much would he actually be forced into pressurised situations where he'd need to kick with his right?



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    #34331
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283138#Comment_122283138

    Perhaps with pure volume stats in isolation; but in combination?

    You previously explained Joe McCarthy's reduced ruck volume because of the amount he carries. And there is something to that.

    One final point from me on McCarthy's ruck numbers: I think it shouldn't be overlooked that he is carrying a huge amount of ball, and being utilised as a carrier (and dummy runner) a lot by Leinster. Obviously when you're being gameplanned in that way, you're inevitably going to hit less offensive rucks.

    .. it does explain a volume disparity IMO

    But Coombes appears to be hitting volume for both ruck and carries (he's clearly also being gameplanned in that way). That is to his credit. He's a complete workhorse.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #34332
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283432#Comment_122283432

    Yeah, I don't dispute he's a workhorse. He's a really honest, hardworking player.

    But I've been through the carrying stats already in detail and I feel I've illustrated why he is evidently not that effective a carrier based on even basic analysis of those stats.

    I haven't seen the detailed ruck stats, and I've commented on the tackle stats.

    None of it though is evidence of the sort of guy with the star quality that demands international inclusion. He's a valuable squad player for Munster over a season unquestionably, but these sheer volume stats he accumulates by playing a lot of URC minutes do not make the case for him to be an international IMO.



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    #34333
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283471#Comment_122283471

    The only point I'm making is that if you've explained why McCarthy's attacking ruck stats are reduced cos he carries so frequently, it suggests that Coombes deserves credit for marrying both. That logicially is impressive by your own explanation of McCarthy's reduced numbers (which you described as "inevitable")

    Volume does matter in an attritional game like rugby. I'm entirely convinced Coombes wouldn't let Ireland down, akin to McCloskey before him.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #34334
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283471#Comment_122283471

    Hes more than a valuable squad player for munster theres a good chance hes player of the year for them again

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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    #34335
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283520#Comment_122283520

    Or of coarse if he hit less rucks and tackles less hed have more energy for big carries



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    #34336
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,433 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283301#Comment_122283301

    I think Osborne would be a good option on the left wing. He's got a cannon of a boot, and is obviously very capable as a 1st receiver. If Lowe got injured for Leinster, I think he'd be slotted in there



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    #34337
    leakyboots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122280368#Comment_122280368

    Given he won the Players' Player of the Season vote I can't wait to see how he goes when he does hit better form!



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    #34338
    RichieRich_89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283628#Comment_122283628

    Hmmm, I would say probably JOB would start at 11 if Lowe was absent and Larmour and Keenan were available to complete the back three.

    But yeah, I'm always interested to see what Osborne brings. If O'Brien needs to be replaced on this tour I'd like to see Osborne slot in at fullback.



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    #34339
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283628#Comment_122283628

    He is not very fast, Ireland is lacking pace in the backs



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    #34340
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,433 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283819#Comment_122283819

    Fair comment, but I doubt he's any slower than Lowe.



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    #34341
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283520#Comment_122283520

    I'm entirely convinced Coombes wouldn't let Ireland down, akin to McCloskey before him.

    I don't think anyone has said he would let Ireland down, but ultimately we can only bring so many players into camp or on tour. If Coombes gets a call-up, then Timoney or Prendergast does not, and neither of them would let us down either. It's a zero sum game (unless we bring 50 players). The coaches have obviously decided they've seen what they need to see from Coombes, for now anyway.

    McCloskey is exactly what Coombes needs to be aiming at; even if the first choice 23 is out of reach, you need to be next cab off the rank when a gap opens up, but he can't seem to get there. I'm sure Coombes knows exactly what is needed of him, even if we do not, so what can he do except keep working on it.

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


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    #34342
    50HX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭50HX


    I dunno if there is anything in this or not but I have heard it said Cork side on a few different occasions that Coombes biggest issue is his off field attitude...maybe it's horse manure or maybe there is some resemblance of truth in it I don't know



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    #34343
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Are we still discussing a player who isn't even in the squad?



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    #34344
    Brief_Lives
    Registered Users Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284064#Comment_122284064

    true, this whole conversation could be kept in the leinster thread.

    11-13 leinster players will play in the first 15 then + subs, and when we lose, Pete will get the blame.

    I think I have sorted it out.

    see ye all in September.



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    #34345
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,433 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284129#Comment_122284129

    Don't rush back



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    #34346
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭nerd69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284064#Comment_122284064

    Perhaps you should try not talking about him if youd like him not talked about



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    #34347
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,857 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: Cut it out.

    People can talk about any Irish player they want. If you find the discussion tedious IGNORE IT.



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    #34348
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,311 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284556#Comment_122284556

    It seems to be ok to talk about him, once you're making a point on why he isn't in camp, anything else, you hate Farrell, hate Ireland and only want your pet in the squad.



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    #34349
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122284576#Comment_122284576

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see Podge's post, but any more and there'll be warnings.



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    #34350
    ersatz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122283628#Comment_122283628

    So many crucial SA scores in the WC came from 50/50 high balls landing outside the 22. Could be a baptism of fire for any of them.



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    #34351
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,296 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122285005#Comment_122285005

    With the potential speed SA have on the wings, barring injuries, compared to Ireland I think they might attack that



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