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Eamon Ryan resigns before the General Election.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Polar101


    That view is very common - people often say they'd support the Greens if they did x,y,z instead of a,b,c. Which usually means "I support environmental issues, just as long I won't have to do anything about it". When Eamon Ryan goes, there will be a new bogeyman. If Roderic O'Gorman is chosen as the new boss, finding one will be easy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,638 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I actually said a long time ago that a Green party is possibly unnecessary now.

    People in the main are convinced that changes have to come and that is coming from the EU now and will continue.
    I wonder would we miss the Greens?
    People in the LEs and EU elections have given their opinion. I wouldn’t look down my nose at the electorate given what we have so far done on green issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Recycle Bin at home. Making people drive to do same. A money racket



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    To be fair, the party that you seem to champion here have pretty much nothing of worth when it comes to environmental credibility. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you think a green party is unnecessary!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Nobody is made to drive anywhere! If returning the bottles and cans is too much then maybe reconsider your initial purchases rather than complain afterwards - its your call!

    Anyhow, how did the cans and bottles arrive in your house in the first place?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,638 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    To be fair that is just ‘look over there’ posting.

    Work away



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    No there was a perfectly convenient system to recycle said articles and they made it redundant. It didnt take what peolple were already doing into account.

    Do you see the problem here while being charged for and inconveniencing people to get money back. Im sorry i dont agree.

    Change peoples attitude not punish people already doing there bit.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There was a huge amount of bottles and cans not being recycled. Something had to be done to reduce this figure.

    Anyhow, we're straying off topic and there is a mega-thread on this topic



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,900 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    People buy bottles/can etc away from the home. Did you bring those home and recycle them or throw them into the nearest bin?

    The points are at shops, which people drive to when buying the majority of those bottles they use at home.

    I don't see the big issue myself



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    How? You said that a green party wasn't needed. I disagree completely. Until recently, there was speculation that SF would lead the next government and yet their environmental policies aren't worth the paper they're written on. A Green party is needed because no other political party really cares much about the environment.

    In order to properly mitigate the effects of what has already been done to the environment will take a massive amount of effort and kicking the can down the road, as most parties would prefer, will just mean that the eventual mitigation will be even harder.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,875 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Ultimately political parties take themselves off the field, not supporters of other parties.

    There is no onus on them to disband due to others perceptions of their level of support.

    It's sort of Politics 101.

    A group of people have a political agenda and they group together to try to put their policies before the people.

    There's no time limit on their endeavour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Of course you dont. Just skip over my point. Cause thats what you do from reading on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,638 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Look if you can’t deal with the point without pointing at others maybe don’t try.
    The Greens are in trouble because of how they have done things.
    The fight to save the planet will continue just fine without them is my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,900 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    A full thread dedicated to people whinging about the recycle charge, as I said people do get bottles/cans outside of their home.

    With the number of bottles now been recycled in the system it is a success

    Plenty of people moaned and complained about the smoking ban and it was a huge success



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Picea



    I’m a forester and was at a field day meeting. Various colleagues were talking about the catastrophe Hackett has visited on the industry, and several referred to her threat to resign form government.
    Apparently just before the passing of the new Forestry Programme last fall, Minister Pippa Hackett threatened to resign and the Greens to leave government if FF and FG did not adopt he programme as presented. It passed with huge restrictions on the planting of Sitka Spruce, out main lumber tree, and the other coalition partners were not too happy with those same restrictions.
    It also appears that senior Forest Service inspectors are attempting with the Minister’s blessing to prohibit any new planting of Sitka Spruce entirely in the coming years.

    Some show of support to the farming community.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Picea



    I’m a forester and was at a field day meeting. Various colleagues were talking about the catastrophe Hackett has visited on the industry, and several referred to her threat to resign form government.
    Apparently just before the passing of the new Forestry Programme last fall, Minister Pippa Hackett threatened to resign and the Greens to leave government if FF and FG did not adopt he programme as presented. It passed with huge restrictions on the planting of Sitka Spruce, out main lumber tree, and the other coalition partners were not too happy with those same restrictions.
    It also appears that senior Forest Service inspectors are attempting with the Minister’s blessing to prohibit any new planting of Sitka Spruce entirely in the coming years.

    And this woman claims to be a supporter of farmers?

    She could teach a turd how to float.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I actually said a long time ago that a Green party is possibly unnecessary now.

    If FG keeps on moving in a more republican direction, does that make SF redundant?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭Packrat


    You have a slightly odd opinion of what a farmer is.

    Sitka spruce = another farming family gone. No more no less.

    It should be reclassified as an invasive weed species.

    The "lumber" you speak of is almost worthless garbage. None of it can make C18 grade timber, and little even makes C16 which is now below construction standard.

    Any measure to limit this blight on our landscape is to be welcomed, even if it comes from the Greens.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    What would you recommend planting instead of Sitka



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,214 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Anything. Just about anything else would be better. Ideally something which isn't short rotation and is deciduous.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Mod: below standard posts deleted



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,676 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The "perfectly convenient" system wasn't working and we were below targets for recycling. So the new system actually did take what people were already doing (well, not doing) into account.

    I buy bottles and cans during my weekly shop and return them the following week, only adds 5 minutes onto my week. If we can't offer 5 minutes up for the environment, then what?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,676 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Your posts seem to change with the wind quicker than a Sinn Fein policy.

    If we have done so much on green issues, that is thanks to the Greens, which means they haven't been the "mudguard" you claim them to be, Eamon Ryan has been far more effective than you have claimed, pretty much everything else you have said about them is untrue as a result of that statement.

    We will miss the Greens. Mark my word, if a Sinn Fein government next year is "reconsidering" the options for Metrolink, we will be missing them hugely.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,374 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i saw several 'young' people (by that i mean younger than me, people in their 20s) who are keen environmentalists pivot to SF when the coalition was formed; i disagreed with them but can respect their anger at the GP going into coalition with FF and FG. at the time SF were championing green causes, and it was a tempting deal for someone who was interested in the environment and was facing into a future of possibly never being able to afford their own home.

    it wasn't long before SF were meeting with the ICMSA and promising them whatever they wanted. i know that two of those people have pivoted away from SF in disgust; i can't say whether they've pivoted back to the GP though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So how come they kept voting for him as leader?

    The new leader will have supported those same policies and actions. It's not as if his policies were disconnected from the views of his colleagues.

    Ossian Smyth stated on Morning Ireland that Ryan told key people in the party about his plans a year ago, so no one in the party leadership was surprised.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There's some truth in what you say, but in many cases, your argument is used more as an excuse for NOT taking personal action (which might be a bit inconvenient) rather than as a real political analysis.

    I can point fingers at myself too. There's lots that I could do better to reduce load on the planet, and it's a constant journey to improve.

    That doesn't mean that I should turn a blind eye to obviously harmful actions and behaviours.

    It is a lifestyle with a lower carbon footprint than the McMansion lifestyle. Funny how those keen to 'live close to the family' aren't so keen to bring Mammeh in under the same roof.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,638 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I used a lower case 'g' for a reason.
    Most of the western world has gone green. Sure the Irish Greens political party had something to do with that but the majority of it is down to our participation in the EU. The Irish Greens are responsible for their own Hari Kari due to their behaviour and willingness to take the fall.

    Other parties will be answerable and responsible for themselves and their own survival or success, and that is as it should be.

    Would the Greens be missed by an electorate that rejected them in the LE's and the EU elections? I doubt it. We will continue to change towards a more sustainable economy and environment due to being in the EU and due to most people accepting that we have to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,676 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You talk as if the EU is something out there in space and creates policies in a vacuum.

    The EU policies came from Green parties across Europe working together, including our own one. So not only have the Greens managed to persuade all the parties in Ireland to adopt green policies, but they have also worked with their colleagues across Europe, through the Parliament and European Council to get green policies adopted at EU level.

    You must admit that they are some really successful political operators and for their size have had a hugely disproportionate influence on society over the last couple of decades. You can disagree with their policies, but you can't dispute their success at influencing society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,638 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Nobody has claimed the Green political movement has been unsuccessful. You are doing what you always do in debate. Not so subtly altering what is said to give you something to argue against.

    Here is my point again: The Green political party in Ireland have been the authors of their own demise. By how they have behaved in coalition. The electorate have ushered in their demise, not me and not some conspiracy against them.
    If any other party take a tanking from the electorate then they have to accept that and change course, do better or exit stage left.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    As if the GP would have achieved a single thing by staying virginal and pure in opposition.

    This is the same as the "Left Green" agenda which the electorate rejected soundly.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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