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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his commanding officer, avoids jail.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,246 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    living in this country is like living in a dystopian nightmare.

    The wellbeing of every ne'er-do-well is now is of greater importance than any person who might be or who has been their victim….

    i recall something like ‘stated misbehaviour or incapacity’ is the only way judges are able to be sanctioned / removed….

    Being just relentlessly ‘shît’ and incompetent and in derogation to your paymasters wellbeing, your paymasters being Irish citizens, does not actually seem to matter a single iota.

    The guilty parties behaviour ie. boasting and gloating and glorifying the attack after and in addition to the attack itself should have seen him being sent to prison for a good few months….

    Absolute state of this country, no political backbone, leadership, courage or nerve. And in turn these judges…. 🤦🏻‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭Dan Steely


    An appeal is very likely. Should look for a custodial sentence, compensatory and punitive damages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,194 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Just wondering how that works. I can understand them not firing him before a judgement was reached in the trial. But at the same time, don't they have military tribunals etc. Couldn't they have started this beforehand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭carveone


    For some reason, the events of 1983 echo in my mind. Judge Gannon saying "sure that's not a crime, off you go".



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭lmao10




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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,028 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    There is a serious problem with the judiciary in this country.

    Between the incredible leniency for violent and dangerous crimes, the ridiculous payouts for injury claims (so much so that govt had to issue new guidelines to tie judges hands), and let's not forget dear garlic man.

    The judges in this country are so out of touch and downright dangerous with their actions - are they aware of the damage they can do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,652 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    That scrote will be alright. He'll sign up to the foreign legion, and get a new name and nationality after his service.

    It's utterly outrageous that he didn't get a custodial sentence for such a violent crime. Like everyone here, I hope the DPP appeal the leniency.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,117 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Hardly easy street, but fcuk him anyhow. He will be unemployable here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,299 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    You’re underscoring people’s concerns not undermining them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,623 ✭✭✭GerardKeating




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  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yup. A judge who pretty much told society that although battering women is not nice, always remember that your career comes first. Don’t sweat it. We’ll sort it… a fooking menace!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭JVince


    The court did not insist he attend. The defendant's team got him to give the exemplary reference. Did the commandant not view the cctv? Is that an "exemplary" member of the defence forces?

    If he did not view the cctv and gave his "glowing reference" - almost so glowing that you'd think it was written by an expert - on the blind, then I would say the Commandant is very stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I think the problem is wider than just this case. This case stands out because they were not known to each other, it was not provoked, it was random and the victim was a woman.

    There are people convicted of assault and assault causing harm everyday in Ireland that just get suspended sentences. And in many of those cases it's not their first offence either.

    Judges aren't sending people to Prison because they are full or nearly full.

    I used to think privatisation of the Prison system might be the answer, but it's 100% not… that would just go as well as everything else we privatised.

    Post edited by Beta Ray Bill on


  • Registered Users Posts: 998 ✭✭✭JVince


    I wonder if Commandant Paul Tougher will give another glowing reference for him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Exactly….that man did not have to attend court and do as he did, and any half decent person (knowing what this animal did to that woman, and he knew what Crotty did) would have absolutely refused, and if that meant disciplinary/sacking, so be it.

    Pretty much everyone in the country would have saluted him for it, and no way he doesn't remain in the defence forces.

    This woman has been beaten three times. The horrendous physical assault, that lowlife judge, and our state's defence forces! Beyond sickening.

    Can't imagine what it must feel like for her, her parents and wider family.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭boredatwork82


    I assume the wheels are already in motion to boot this guy out. Work places have processes to follow to exit someone. I'd give the defence forces the time to actually process and deal with the situation.

    Also exemplary in the defence forces is a technical performance rating term. It pretty much means ya haven't done a bad job. It is not meant to be treated as it would in the civilian world.

    I know it sounds bad but the officer actually said the minimum that was actually correct. I don't think any person except the judge and the scumbag himself would think he shouldn't have gone to prison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This judge didn't not send this scumbag to prison because prisons are full….that's an absoluter crock a sh1t

    He was clear: the scumbags career was the real issue, not the violent and horrendous assault



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Did he have to attend and give this glowing report….exemplary, polite, courteous, professional….you saying this means nothing? Knowing what that poor woman endured at this soldier's hands?

    Nobody had to stand up and give any praising words for that animal. He chose to. I think what he did is a disgrace.

    What I would have done: stood up, and said I have nothing to say about this animal after what I have heard he did. There!



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,970 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    3k?

    Fúcking hell, that is derisory.

    Insult to injury.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    He's not employed by the courts, he's employed by the Defence Forces and it was his job to attend and report back the facts of the case to his senior officers.

    How could he possibly have access to the CCTV before the court case?

    People talking about he gave a "glowing reference" don't seem to understand that the Commandant was merely quoting what was kept on file by the Defence Forces about the soldier.

    It wasn't his personal opinion, it was a matter of record. If he deviated from the facts in any way shape or form he would be in huge trouble and also an ex soldier fairly rapidly.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭wonga77


    This is an awful judgement. The judges in this country need a serious overhaul, i mean some of the judgements on various things are mind boggling but this takes the biscuit. Its an awful look for the defence forces too, its a wonder they didnt strip him of his role and send him packing



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,162 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Ridiculous he got credit for pleading guilty. He initially said she punched him until he was shown the cctv, he had no choice but to plead guilty. Lucky for the passerby intervening, his friends obviously made no effort to stop him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Did he absolutely have to stand up in court and say what he did. Courteous, professional, exemplary…..yes or no? He made a choice to do this, knowing what that woman suffered.

    Also, these words are glowing and are praising and are very impacting…he said them BEFORE a judge made a decision on the case.

    You know what the worst thing Togher could muster up after knowing about what this animal did……He was "exceptionally disappointed." Not sick, horrified, disgusted. Disappointed!!!! Like what you'd feel if he mitched off and went to a niteclub while on duty…….

    I see no defending/justifying for what Togher did here



  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭csirl


    There's no obligation on any employer to give a reference in a criminal case. It doesnt happen in most cases. Its entirely voluntary.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I fully agree that he's a scummer.

    But you can't send one person to prison for a crime and not another for the same crime.

    There are people getting suspended sentences all the time for assault in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    This was the ultimate insult from our Defence Forces to that unfortunate woman who gave a very telling answer to the Judge.
    https://www.limerickleader.ie/video/home/1534014/this-is-not-justice-limerick-woman-s-anger-as-man-who-viciously-attacked-her-gets-suspended-sentence.html

    For a senior officer to go into the witness box and sing the praises of the defendant, having seen CCTV of this dreadful attack, is far worse than usual “letter of recommendation” handed into courts.

    Judging by newspaper reports (which may be incomplete), it appears that Commadant Paul Togher would have left that court without uttering a word of condemnation about this appalling attack if he had not been cross-examined by prosecuting Counsel.

    What a farce this makes of the Tribunal of Inquiry which is being set up today and will cost millions to investigate sexual harassment in the Defence Forces

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/women-of-honour-welcome-tribunal-into-bullying-allegations-1737312



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,433 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Your point has no relevance here. The judge in THIS case did not send this scumbag to prison because Crotty's career was potentially on the line. You bringing up other cases and prisons full has nothing to do with this judge's decision on this case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75


    Most judges in most jurisdictions give leniency for a guilty plea. Just this time the Judge went way too far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,464 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    It will seriously backfire on that commanding officer. Looks like he is fine with having a violent thug and misogynist / homophobe under his command (one wonders if he gave any thought to the female or gay members of the forces who have to serve alongside that creep).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Nonsense! There has never been a suspended sentence for such a vicious unprovoked attack on a complete stranger.

    This case is clearly aggravated by many factors and should have resulted in serious jail time.



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