ESB eCars

Yes so you missed the point in my idea about there being a fixed monthly fee for this service. If everybody who availed of the service were paying a monthly amount the funds from that fee could then go towards paying for the more expensive infrastructure needed to specifically charge cars. This would give a guaranteed income to support this infrastructure. It would be similar to how there is a standing charge on your Electricity bill to cover the infrastructure. Ionity already come fairly close to this with a 42c/kWh rate for €12 a month… What monthly fee would be required for that to come down further?

As to recent history, unless you have access to some insider knowledge, I'm not aware that eCars have ever shared details about profitable of their business. All we have is financial statements that show it's part of a larger ESB group company that has lost money.

Well yes you are correct I don't have access to the companies accounts. I am making assumptions based on the eye watering profit made by the parent company on the back of the highest electricity charges in Europe and the fact that they haven't tried to sell off ecars yet would all point to a profitable company.

Assuming you also don't have access to the companies accounts so your operating at a loss claim would also be somewhat presumptive

So pretty much what's happening already with subscriptions for lower rates (ESB, Ionity, Tesla…)

Yes. Maybe I'm thinking too simplistically but if Ionity can do a 42c/kWh rate for €12/month surely €20 a month would be able give rates even closer again to 24hr home rates which are currently about 26c. I highly doubt that the Electric Ireland rate of 26c is loss making in fairness

Businesses are not in the business of not wanting to make profit.

I presume ecars want to sell electricity to electric car owners though as that will give them profit? Increase the number of electric cars on the road and increase the potential profit, no?

Yes. Maybe I'm thinking too simplistically but if Ionity can do a 42c/kWh rate for €12/month surely €20 a month would be able give rates even closer again to 24hr home rates which are currently about 26c. I highly doubt that the Electric Ireland rate of 26c is loss making in fairness

I take your point, but it is too simplistic. ESB operates on a completely different model to Ionity (and almost all other providers in ROI) given the size & distribution & technical characteristics of their network.

But I am not justifying their prices - just saying I think their cost base would be markedly higher than Ionity.

Based on the cost of installation for High Power DC Hub, I would say yes, they are currently still in the red...

not on a current & opex base, no. But if you include paying off years of RnD, 6 years of free customer support 24/7 and backends, and then RnD and future expansion cost, as well as ammortizing the hardware costs for installs that were not EU and/or IE taxpayer funded, no I'd say it's a safe bet to say it's loss making.

I'd use the analogy of a car dealer spending 1million per annum on a car showroom lease and then the next day they sell a car for 50k that they bought for 35k. Is that business profitable by 15k or is it loss making by ((1/365)*(1000000))-15000-(staff costs pro rata)-(other operational expenses pro rata)

I'd say the latter. If you'd say the former then that's a wishful way to make it profitable in your mind to suit your somewhat anti-EV stance, while not strictly speaking inaccurate as on a going concern basis it's profitable.

(I worked as a commercial underwriter before, can you spot the neeerrrrrd speak!!)

Also Applegreen at Millfield Balbriggan shopping centre are currently installing a fast charger at the moment. Just 2.5km from the M1.

Where's the second Ionity hub on the M1? Do you mean the one in Belfast?

Even if you're at Applegreen Castlebellingham — plug into the AC charger while you're waiting those 2 hours!

Perhaps in the early days it was break even because of the grants they availed of but when they first introduced payments they surely turned a corner on that. I notice applegreen, easygo and Circle K are roughly the same price as the old ecars (68-70c) and they're certainly not loss making ventures and expanding quite fast

I am far from anti-EV as should be clearly seen from my previous comments. In general, public charging is too expensive to attract a lot of people to EVs. Myself and the wife are both EV drivers, we are fortunate enough to have our own home with a driveway. Not everybody is as fortunate and a lot of people would be much more reliant on public charging. High prices in public charging doesn't help with pushing for a switch

Love the nerd talk though, never apologise for that 👍👍👍

No AC charger anymore

Would suggest checking Plugshare so. There's plenty of options before you get to the border, several outlined in this thread already. Some require a 5min spin off the motorway tbf, but much better than waiting 2hrs for a single charger. Also locations like Ionity with their 6 charger hub in City North. Quite a few options once you get over the border too. Banbridge has a number of multi-unit hubs.

I do Santry-Newtownabbey (north of Belfast) once a month and don't have any issues.

Would never stop at Applegreen Castlebellingham though due to the possibility of that single charger being in use. Two extra chargers added there, or the massively underused Tesla chargers being opened up, would mean I'd definitely go there.

Delete

I have gone into detail about it. Twice. Im not doing it again.

If you dont think there are bad scenarios for EV drivers at chargers, then you will never believe anyone who tells you there are anyway. Like i said before, there are both good and bad experiences to be had with EVs. 99% of those bad experiences are when you are on a long journey and looking to charge. Ive waited in a Leaf before many times. The last few times I had to wait I was in the MG. The people who I was waiting with were in all sorts of cars.

My bullshit detector detects someone here trying to pretend that the charging infrastructure is fit for purpose in Ireland and is in total denial.