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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his commanding officer, avoids jail.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Well, exactly. A strange thing for a commanding officer to say about a soldier IMO. Sounds kind of needy!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Absolute nonsense. The witness is not only free to speak, they are obliged to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Of course they must answer the question put to them but when Cmdt. Togher was asked by the Defence Counsel to comment on Crotty’s character, he was perfectly free to say “I have revised my opinion of the defendant’s character having seen his appalling behaviour onCCTV and heard his guilty plea but in regard to his performance on duty ….etc.” Did he perjure himself I.e. not tell the whole truth or does he genuinely believe what he said in favour of Crotty? I think perjury would be the lesser evil in this case.


    The most common phrase used by Counsel to witnesses is “in your own words” . Speaking your mind is what you should do but your misconception is understandable if you read Irish court reports. Stringing together a set of carefully rehearsed lies is sadly common practice in Ireland where perjury is rarely punished.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I need cess-pit cleaned out - I’m still at two minds if he’s qualified enough



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,448 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Isn't he pretty much screwed going to any country outside the EU now where a visa is needed since you have to declare criminal convictions and this is not a trivial crime to let pass



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Some posters think we are unfair to Cmdt. Togher. I think it is telling how little consideration is given to the moral qualities for Natasha O’Brien who spoke up every powerfully outside the court and now on the media. No wonder this is getting international attention. What an image of Ireland, our courts and our military!
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv22yw830w1o

    This was not an “unprovoked attack”. Natasha tried to stop Crotty from yelling homophobic abuse at passers-by. Her civic spirit was rewarded by t being beaten unconscious. The Judge made no reference to this gravely aggravating aspect of the case which will surely be highlighted in the Tribunal of Inquiry into sexual harassment in the Defence Forces.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,877 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I would have thought so, I don't know why that poster suggested he'd go to Australia. They certainly won't want him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,877 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Fair play to her, she's not going quietly. I admire her for putting herself out there to shame the government into dealing with it, it can't be easy.

    I wonder would she consider a career in politics in the future?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,448 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    She's one in a very long line of women that have had to come forward to shame this country and government in to doing something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,663 ✭✭✭✭klose


    Genuinely shocked at this, what a shameful day for the country of Ireland. No better than Saudi Arabia at this rate just beat women and carry on. Hope that Judge has an eternity of sleepless nights, as small as a speck of dirt that man is.

    As for the lad who beat the woman, I’d get banned for airing my opinion on him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Yep, about time these so called character references are removed from the courtrooms . . they're just a bunch of misleading turd polishers.



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  • This absolutely has to be appealed by the DPP and very urgently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    When this dies down(And it will) and he has done his sentence,he can apply for the right to be forgotten. Of course he'll be limited to jobs that don't do security checks and he'll never get to the US or Australia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Media outside ireland have picked this story up too. He might have difficulty getting this info erased from the internet. His name is not a forgettable name either.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Eh, no, you can't. You would need a referendum to amend article 35.4 of the constitution to occur to do anything like that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Babyreignbow


    I listened to her interview on Drivetime earlier and I hope tonight she's in a good place surrounded by people who love her and care about her and that she is being buffered by the support of an entire nation.

    A lack of justice or continuing injustice plays a role in ptsd symptoms and I know how significant closure is in helping process those traumatic experiences. I hope she's found some. It must be difficult too being in the spotlight under the circumstances and I'd say she'll be glad for it to be over at this stage.

    If a thousand suns were to rise
    and stand in the noon sky, blazing,
    such brilliance would be like the fierce
    brilliance of that mighty Self.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,877 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    McEntee and Harris both stating the DPP can appeal the sentence. 28 days to do so, 56 in some circumstances.

    They need to address all violence though, not just gender based. The gender of both the victim and perpetrator should not be the focus, the injuries sustained should.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Regardless of DPP appealing I expect he might see jail yet.

    Defence Forces can imprison him via court martial. He'd better pray it's not a General Court Martial which has the powers to imprison those found guilty for life (not that he would get life but I suspect given the public outrage they will probably throw the book at him)

    https://www.military.ie/en/public-information/courts-martial/classes-of-courts-martial/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    The Defence Forces issued this tweet.

    Hopelessly inadequate. Doesn’t even mention the key issue for the Defences Forces - the role of the Commanding Officer and his intervention in the criminal case.

    https://x.com/defenceforces/status/1804189320422789175?s=61&t=5yJYlU_Z5hOpPzF4_D53ZA



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,448 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭growleaves


    But would a Military Judge be that influenced by public opinion ? Or any sort of Judge for that matter?

    No doubt legislators would love to lock this guy up, throw away the key and then claim the credit.*

    But the judiciary?

    *Who sets lax sentencing guidelines? Who sleeps on building prisons? Who tells people 'wow if you were educated you would know that crime is mainly a response to socio-economic factors' etc., etc.?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,539 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Opposite. His colleagues are trying to find any way possible to defend him and come up with excuses/reasoning i.e allegedly the girl hit him first etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,391 ✭✭✭This is it


    Have you a link to that?

    The only excuse or reasoning I've seen was from Crotty himself, which was quickly debunked when Gardai provided CCTV



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,678 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I absolutely cannot see the equity nor justice in the decision handed down by the judge in this instance. The man undertook a violent and sustained attack against a young woman unable to offer any defence and left her in fear for her life during the assault, and struggling to reconcile the violence inflicted upon her, with carrying on as normal.

    There is a protest organised for tmrw in Limerick city and I'll be attending to show solidarity to Natasha O'Brien.

    My wife, my sister's, my nieces all matter, violence against women cannot be left unanswered. The notion that someone gets a "free hit" to inflict serious harm upon someone? Has to be knocked on the head.

    Emma Langford has penned a protest song that I think may well capture a lot frustration felt by victims of violence whose lack of justice is epitomised by Natasha.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭howiya


    Defenders of the officer have been putting the regulations out on X this evening. They discuss what is to occur when a member of the defence forces is to be tried in a civilian court. They use the word trial several times.

    However as we know there was no trial as the defendant pleaded guilty.

    Haven't seen any regulations relating to a sentencing hearing so hard to know whether the officer is still obliged/required to do anything.

    Clear as mud.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    I notice there’s a gofundme set up for Natasha O’Brien. It’s not clear who the organiser is / how he relates to the victim, apart from the sense of outrage shared by the public.

    I’m so impressed by Natasha’s conduct. She comes across an extraordinary woman. Her openness in expressing her thoughts and experience publicly is a breath of fresh air in the midst of pure turmoil.

    I had a creep with a knife following me as I walked home one night. I was actually prepared to die that night when he caught up with me on a quiet road. I count my blessings to have survived. He went on to rob others, another guy was stabbed. I was pretty shaken in a bad way by the ordeal. What Natasha went through was far, far worse than I experienced. I’ve all the more respect to her. Lucky she is still alive - her words will be a catalyst for big change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Notmything


    It wasn't a character reference, he was asked to give evidence.

    One thing in relation to use of the word "exemplary". All soldiers have a yearly appraisal. So if he was judged to be exemplary in his then that is what the officer has to go on. Was anyone there to say exactly what the line of questions were?

    In relation to df regulations and the court. It was a civilian court so they have no standing. However, there are specific regulations to deal with personnel convicted in court. These are now in play.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,448 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Makes you wonder why don't the gards hold this kind of evidence till the court appearance then watch them squirm when the video evidence is shown to disprove his defense



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,937 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Because that would be concealing/hiding evidence from the defence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    isn’t a Judge, through education, acumen, & long experience, supposed to have, like, good judgement? Here, poor judgement was very much in evidence. The naivety of his failure to realise how the Defence Forces would not defend, per se, one of their ranks who is in dishonour.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Field east


    Could Crotty just resign his position in the DF.- end of? So no Court Marshal and !his exemplary record in the DF remain intact



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