General British politics discussion thread

Britain spent 40 years carving out a unique place in the EU with special provisions for just about everything. It was the main reason they managed to stay in for so long. All of that is pissed away - gone never to return.

This would be the hardest thing to sell to the British public - a membership on the EU's terms with absolutely no special provisions and no exceptions. A country reared on treating the rules as contingent on what you can get away with will find that impossible to stomach, unless and until the pain of staying out grows to big.

James Cleverly is being torn apart everywhere by dodging the question about why sunak wont just fine anyone who admits to making a bet, despite their protestations the gambling commission investigation in no way precludes sunak simply asking those under investigation the binary question of did you do this yes or no, and if yes he needs to fire them. The fact he hasn't done this feeds even further into the party gate, ppe and now betting scandal attitude of rules dont apply to us.

Now it looks like they have someone who made multiple bets, this is absolutely the tip of the iceberg on this scandal.

The British need an actual heads rolling revolution before they can make any meaningful change - they genuinely believe they are the best in the world so what is there to change. Until that attitude changes they will not be able to reform the institutions (oxbrige,Eton, House of Lords, etc) which hold them in their dysfunction.

If the world pushes the UK into a depression then it might just happen.

It's a General Election in Britain

ThThe thread title is General British politics discussion thread

There is no bigger discussion in British politics right now.

It's been a few years now since Labour said that they would not be looking into returning to the EU or the single market if getting into government.

When first said it was not to keep anyone like Reform or right wing media off their back.

It was said to keep the Labour core vote on side.

The core Labour vote in the north of England that favoured Brexit, because they are as resentful of Johnny Foreigner as any right wing Tory or Reform voter.

Remember this was a few years ago, when a Labour in a GE was expected but by no means guaranteed as it has become in the last few weeks.

They needed to appease that demographic and make it clear that free movement will not be returning under their watch.

And it will mean more misery for the UK economy, because there is no way the country can grow while the trade barriers between them and their nearest and biggest market stay in place.

Ideally presuming Labour does won a huge working majority those who champion rejoin should form their own party and campaign for it just as UKip campaigned for Brexit.

It would allow the topic to be discussed. The Tory's would be glad of it too as it would draw heat away from them as the Reform followers target the rejoin faction.

Labour lost the Red Wall in 2019 simply because they were offering a better deal and another referendum and Johnson to “Get Brexit done”.

All 63 constituencies voted overwhelmingly in favour of Brexit.

When you have a rabid press and people from think tanks ready to rip to pieces anything you offer, is it any wonder Labour is being cautious? It is easier to change your mind when in government if you explain why than trying to convince people to vote for your policies that will be made to sound like you are going to donate a organ from every voter if you go ahead with it.

Seems like Labour should just sit tight in all honesty. Yes there are many holes in their manifesto and their current stance on what they will do, but with Sunak just being terrible and the betting scandal now probably meaning the Tories may get less votes than Reform, and the SNP having to battle whether they use public money to pay for stamps because they are skint, they don't have to offer anything other than just not what is currently happening.

Sunak tweeted about how Starmer was going to reverse Brexit, he set out his stall. As above though it is easy for Labour to say once they are in power, that it so much worse than they thought that they will need to make new plans or the country is done. They can play that card for years about what a mess they were left with and use that as an excuse to forge a closer relationship with Europe to get the growth they need.

An amusing example of the UK choosing to remain aligned, simply because it's better law apparently, is the new law on plastic bottle tops remaining attached to bottles: the British are going to copy it because ecologists and wildlife experts have said it's a brilliant idea.

Of course I know they will say that they can pick and choose which laws to apply and which not, but unless EU laws are bonkers, most of them are going to be things the UK will probably do in some fashion or other anyway. So for the avoidance of complications with import/export and borders, it will probably be simplest for them to just apply most EU law pretty much as is - but without having had any say in writing it.

Law takers, not law makers, as they were warned.

Even if the UK did not adopt the laws, all the big manufacturers are going to use a single type of cap across all of Europe anyway.

Fintan O'Toole covered all of this in his book on Brexit: "A great democratic country tears itself apart, and engages in the dangerous pleasures of national masochism. Trivial journalistic lies became far from trivial national obsessions; the pose of indifference to truth and historical fact came to define the style of an entire political elite; a country that once had colonies redefined itself as an oppressed nation requiring liberation."

Correct, stay in step, no divergence. Any major reforms of all sorts, will probably be in the second administration. They really need however to lift children out of poverty. Gordon Brown, grumpy hoor that he is, accepted, has written well on this and Starmer has referenced him on this.