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Muslim majority Tajikistan bans Hijab.

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Not at all. Christians have killed more people in the name of christ than any other religion. It matters not a jot what the good book says when you use it as an excuse to slaughter.

    I just hate hypocrisy when it inevitably rears it's ugly head in discussions of how evil Islam is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    What does the old testament say about adultery, I know you brought up Jesus in your post but without the old testament he is irrelevant. Of course not all people who adhere to the old testament want to live exactly by it, whereas this isn't the case with Islam.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    But Christians haven't - you just don't know anything about the history of Islam so you think Christianity did all the bad things.

    Islam spread mostly by war - trade came second to military conquests. The initial spread of Islam out of Arabia was done mainly at sword point. James Buchan says that "In speed and extent, the first Arab conquests were matched only by those of Alexander the Great, and they were more lasting."

    Did you know that when taking over India, the Muslim invaders killed up to 200 million Indians? The "peace" that Islam talks about is the same as "Pax Romana", ie, peace because you have crushed anyone who disagrees with you.

    And meanwhile, I notice that you have very carefully avoided dealing with the real point here, which is not that individuals do bad things in the name of any ideology (I think we all agree on that) but that some ideologies are inherently more violent than others.

    So are you going to comment on the comparison I gave you of how Mohammed taught his followers they should deal with an adulterous woman compared how Jesus did, or are you just going to keep on with the fingers in your ears "I can't HEAR you" approach?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    You mean they didn't enter Southern France and Spain and Constantinople with flower necklaces?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don't know and it's not relevant because in Christian religions, what Jesus said supersedes anything in the old testament.

    The thing with homosexuality is that Jesus didn't say anything about it, so the fundies can go to the old testament and take what they like from it. But that isn't Jesus' fault - even the son of god is apparently not infallible, LOL. He just didn't think of it perhaps.

    But where he did say something, then what he said can't be cancelled out by the OT, not even for the fundies.

    So, women caught in adultery can be stoned in Islam because Mohammed did so himself - and this was him being "merciful"! - whereas Jesus told her to go and sin no more.

    Oh wait, no - the Muslim woman came herself and asked to be purified. The other woman was caught. So much for being sorry in Islam.

    Personally, I think someone has to have something wrong with them if they think those are equally bad teachings.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Since Jesus is a fiction in my book - the only thing that matters is what his believers did in his name - and that involved killing a hell of a lot of heathens. Really no different to any bunch of fanatics who want you to believe what they do - at the point of a sword.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    So are you going to comment on the comparison I gave you of how Mohammed taught his followers they should deal with an adulterous woman compared how Jesus did, or are you just going to keep on with the fingers in your ears "I can't HEAR you" approach?

    So the latter then? Okay.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog




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  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭LetticebCivil


    Who knew we had so many experts on Tajikistan here in boards?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,450 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The difference is that Christians aren't the ones throwing gays off of rooftops.

    Not approving of somebody's sexuality isn't the same as murdering somebody for their sexuality.

    Typically leftie drivel, western countries, who have been historically Christian have evolved to be less religious and more tolerant of virtually everyone, but because some hard line Christians don't AGREE WITH homosexuality you equate their opinions with the actions of radical Muslims.

    All religions are, in my opinion, as waste of time but some are worse than otheoin real measurable ways.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,139 ✭✭✭Augme


    Typical rightie denial. Uganda has a 13% Muslim population and recently brought in some of the harshed penalties against homosexuals, including the death penalty Thanks to the support of American Christian groups. Can't blame the Muslims for that one unfortunately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,450 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    I'm a centrist.

    Now disprove the fact that Islamic countries kill homosexuals.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,994 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Its scary the lengths lefties will go with lies to deny reality.

    One religion kills gays.

    One religion doesn't kill gays but thinks it's bad.

    Both of these are the same thing apparently.

    Jesus prisons would be full if thinking something bad was the same as doing something bad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,945 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Give McEntee and FG time - they're working on that latter point with their Hate Speech bill.

    Anyway, it's wholly ironic that in a country where one religion did massive amounts of damage to this State through dogma and slowing social progression, as well as the personal crimes committed against people and children, that some people see no issue at all with allowing another equally destructive religion to take root.

    Even allowing for the point that not all of its adherents follow the more extreme teachings, it has no place in a modern Western country that has largely moved away from religion as a whole.

    What's equally ironic is that many of those downplaying these issues would likely be among the first to suffer restrictions and limitations on their hard-won freedoms if they did get their wish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,139 ✭✭✭Augme


    We will agree to disagree on that.

    Why dont you comment on the largely Christian country having the death penalty for homosexuals?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Never underestimate what some people will say for social clout



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Uganda has no official state religion, and its constitution doesn't allow it to have one. So its laws are NOT based on one particular religion, still less on Christianity.

    Try again with a country where christianity is a state religion? Denmark maybe? Norway? the UK?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Apparently my elderly aunt saying after a lesbian friend has left “ah I’ll pray for her” is absolutely the same as beheading or stoning someone.

    If mental gymnastics was in the Olympics we’d be top of the medal table in Paris.



  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Candlel


    I always suspected Jesus was gay as he never got married and lived with a bunch of men.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ngl I know sfa about Tajikistan. I am familiar with the destructive, violent and abusive nature of religions and their proponents though. I think we should all be aware of radicalisation movements and how they operate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Wow!

    You are centuries out of place.

    The Brit's would have loved your approach though, telling people how to live, what to wear, what god to worship and not to reproduce as it was a drain on the resources they were trying to liberate back to England.

    I find the use of "must" inappropriate!

    Don't get me wrong, I think in the West it's not socially acceptable to cover One's dial, although there are a few pretty horrendous looking versions about along with some women's use of those tight leggings or whatever that would be doing the population of any country a service if covered.

    There were two occasions when someone in the full face covering get up in Birmingham, in the UK did the unexpected. One tried to reverse an SUV into me in petrol station and another totally out of the blue for no reason I could see from behind pulled up in front of me to turn left into a side street. she had to stop and look to the left before turning. I came close to having to fill in two accident forms for other peoples stupid ethnic attitudes that put other road users of all cultures at risk.

    Now I don't know if it's illegal to drive with the vision restricted like that, but if not it should be.

    As for the legality generally, it's a difficult one. I think people should have the right to dress the way they want, but really It's hard to justify laws that disallow clobber that prevents a persons features being seen and then prosecuting people for indecent behaviour if they decide to let all their "features" be seen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Any government decreeing what people can and cannot wear is nothing to celebrate, no matter what your feelings about religions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    The irony is those who think the ban is a good thing probably see themselves as liberal and tolerant people and agree with the ban because it goes against religion which they disagree with.

    I'm sure most religious extremists are also equally tolerant of those who share their viewpoint.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think banning it just increases their cause and leads to more radicalisation., no different to any other religion there would be a resistance. A little like the what you resist persists theory. The same could be seen in Ireland during the covid years when the churches were temporarily put on pause. The fundeys came crawling out of the woodwork claiming their rights were being violated and it was all portrayed as a fight between good and evil, them and everyone else, us and ye.

    It's divisive and leads to greater radicalisation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/10/23/double-murderer-yousef-palani-jailed-for-life-for-attacks-on-gay-men-spurred-by-hostility-and-prejudice/

    The court also heard that while Palani told gardaí that his religion forbids homosexuality, investigators were satisfied that he was not radicalised. Palani told gardaí in interviews that Muslims could not be homosexual and vehemently denied being gay, despite using gay dating apps.

    Det Gda Jordan said there is no evidence Palani, who is a Muslim, was radicalised “despite some suggestions to the contrary”. The Garda also praised the Islamic and immigrant community for their assistance in the investigation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,450 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Uganda fits all the criteria as a failed state, that law is disgusting but is hardly something that can be solely credited to the influence of Christianity alone.

    I think you know you're reaching here. We all know Islams attitudes to many things we take for granted in the West is to move backwards socially.

    You can disagree with my centerism if you like, to you everyone is a fascist.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Mmm. Could well be why he avoided the subject. 😁

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    That those bad catholics in the west of Ireland told a peaceful muslim that he should do like we traditionally do in Ireland and throw gays from high buildings, or, if no high buildings are handy, chop their heads off?

    (Seperately from that, what I really want to know about Palani is what happened about the large sum of money found in the family's house - did nobody try to trace its origin?)

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    you said

    No religion kills gays. some countries do.

    Do you want to argue that this is not the case and that Yousef Palani was acting with full autonomy?

    Religion kills people every day and when they're not kllling them they are abusing them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    I don't believe for a second that religion killed those men. They were killed by a murderer who tried to blame his religion for his horrendous acts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    I agree to an extent, do you think most women choose to wear them or are forced to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Tbh, I honestly don't know. I know women and girls who say they choose to wear them, some I believe, others I'm not so sure.

    I don't believe anyone should be forced into something they don't wish to do, and I don't think any government should get to decide what clothes people do or do not wear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Women are forced to wear all manner of rubbish, it's nothing to do with culture, just intelligence or the lack thereof.

    You only have to see the marketing of smelly grease and water emulsions to realise that anyone would not choose to buy the stuff of their own free will, they have to be bombarded with pictures over and over again.

    When I were a lad, I used to wear the knees of my trousers out, my mother patched them in those days but I guess the skills are rare now and clothes very cheap.

    It was not comfortable having gaping holes in One's trousers. The fashion statement was of no concern, but no way would the holes get anywhere near what you see women walking around in these days. The temperature differential at the kneecaps plus the discomfort as the perimeter of the material strained against skin when sitting was an irritation that couldn;t easily be ignored.

    Who in their right mind would put up with the discomfort out of choice?

    Unless it's a ploy for handouts, they must be forced into wearing the things. Brainwashing or hypnosis, but forced nonetheless.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Religion has a long proud history of killing those who disagree with it. That's all religions. Religion is the root of much of the evil in the world (evil is a uniquely religious term so as an atheist I make the rare exception of using it here).

    Anyone who is an apologist for any religions vile acts of oppression is in deep deep denial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Just to once again point out the comparisons ..

    I’m Catholic and I chuckled at that. There’s a teacher in the UK under police protection for showing a cartoon of Mohammed.

    Not all religions are the same - some are grown up and some are vicious cults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Did you not hear of the abortion doctors in America under constant threat of violence from fundi's, and maybe you forget the ones who were murdered by fundi's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    Most Muslim women choose to wear headscarves even without threat of any punishment. I find it somewhat bizarre but it's absolutely the case.

    I also find it bizarre that many fundi women wear headscarves, and there are the many Jewish women who follow religious dress codes. All out of choice. What about those **** nuns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,341 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    That's a country. There are plenty of women who choose to wear it, plenty who do not. The other choice is not death, apart from tyrannical countries.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,508 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Gosh it's a shame the Iranian Mullahs and Saudi clerics don't talk to you - here they are imprisoning and murdering women for refusing to wear veils, or even for not wearing the veil "modestly" enough - and all they had to do was just leave it to the women and they'd have done it all by themselves! If only you'd told them that! 🙄

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,187 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I have many Muslim neighbours - and yes they all choose to wear headscarves. Better call the Garda.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Religion is prone to being weaponised because it provides an idealogical framework that can be utilised by zealots to achieve their own desired outcomes - not just morally but politically, socially and economically. We might think that living in the west, our traditional belief systems are somehow benign in comparison but it doesn't take much for it to pivot and be hijacked for some idealogcal movement. We are seeing evidence of that on our streets daily now and yes homophobia is a big part of that movement.

    Christianity provides as much a cover for subversive elements to grow and even thrive when the right conditions are met, especially when it provides social networks and community participation and rewards with opportunities and social capital to those who follow it's tenets. The true message of Christ gets lost and it is reduced to an institution, or as Ralph Waldo Emerson put it, the elongated shadow of a man.

    (I've read the bible, I've also read the Bhagavad Gita which is 200 years older)



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