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General British politics discussion thread

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    #13622
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,815 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295396#Comment_122295396

    Well I don’t think the EU do trust the UK. If we as Irish and EU citizens had a say in whether the UK could be allowed to rejoin, I’d personally would vote against it. We have seen during the campaign and since they left, an unbelievable level of ignorance and stupidity frankly from many in the UK about what the benefits of being in the EU.



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    #13623
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,815 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aw1pcAzjRnc&si=7ci8NRnEZjYbAIx7

    btw Geoffrey Howe’s resignation is unbelievably relevant now and from 8:00 on should be shown to people in the UK.



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    #13624
    Good loser
    Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Good loser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295425#Comment_122295425

    Fantastic find. Superb speech - his analysis, foresight and prescience hugely impressive. A great Tory intelligence.



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    #13625
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    This gambling issue is going to derail any attempts the Tories had of attacking Labour.

    Sunak could have easily dealt with it, taking action against a few to put down a marker. After that any further revelations would be individual bas eggs and not part of what Sunak stands for.

    But as usual, Sunak does nothing and kicks to the long grass.



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    #13626
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122294994#Comment_122294994

    The 1960s called. They'd like their stereotypes back, please.

    Tell you what; give us a list of the legislation enacted by the UK in the past, say, 20 years that Ireland has mirrored.



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    #13627
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295603#Comment_122295603

    Assuming Sunak didn't know about it while it was going on — and there's no reason to think he did — he's actually pretty snookered on this. When the Gambling Commission contact someone's employer in connection with an investigation, the standard letter says something like "Don't tell the employee we're investigating him. Don't tell anyone else. Don't make any public announcements". So, by the time Sunak finds out what is happening, there is basically not much he can do by way of damage limitation. He has to wait for the scandal to become public before he can take any action at all and then, of course, it looks like he's only acting because the story has gone public.

    But, honestly, even if he wasn't constrained in this way, there isn't a great deal he could do to protect the party here.

    What we've got is a bunch of people associated with the Tory party placing corrupt and unlawful bets to make trivial amounts of money. These people are either mind-numblingly stupid or grotesquely ethically deficient or, probably, both. The amounts of money involved are tiny, but that's not the point.

    The point is that this story perfectly encapsulates already well-entrenched negative preconceptions about the Tory government. The party has been assiduously fostering stupidity and greed at the highest levels of government for the past 14 years. This doesn't happen by accident; it's an ingrained culture that is visible to all. This is Sunak's GUBU story — in some ways a bit of a side-show, but a side-show that is so perfectly in tune with the main act that it resonates with everyone. There is nothing Sunak could do to persuade the public that this just a few bad apples because, right now, it's just the most characteristically Tory thing imaginable.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


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    #13628
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,579 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    The police suspended the protection detail guy.

    No reason why Sunak can't do the same for Tory members. As usual he waits for others to tell him what is right or wrong.

    Seems the police can take a stronger stance than the PM. He is hiding behind this Gambling Commision as if it is the highest power in the land. Its just a commission.

    This reminds people of the parties during lockdown. They needed a report, and then a police investigation, to tell them whether they had partied or not! Just seems that they have no standards themselves.

    Sunak could, if fact in an election where he is struggling he had to, made a stand. At least one person has admitted to an 'error of judgement' and apologised. What more does Sunak need? Has he sent out an email to all members demanding that anyone else placing bets come forward to help the commission?

    No. He tried the whole 'I'm furious' line but did nothing. Tried to avoid it.



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    #13629
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,073 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    British politics is going to continue to be a sht show, but im here for it the best craic in years, come on the labour…..

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #13630
    rock22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭rock22


    An interesting article in the Guardian on how people access political news

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/news-mainstream-social-media-consumption-changes-uk-election

    It is a small sample but interesting none the less. One think it mentions is that younger people do not kee pup wit hthe whole Westminster news cycle but are concerned with particular issues. A Quote

    "The younger participants …. didn’t feel the need to be across the broader Westminster-centric news agenda. Instead, they cared deeply about certain key issues that they deemed directly relevant to their lives, such as the war in Gaza, gender issues and housing.As a result, the sources they relied on tended to be influencers or friends rather than mainstream news outlets. Finley, a first-time voter, knew little about Keir Starmer, but said his friendship group was talking about how the Labour leader “went back on a policy about giving trans people better rights”.

    I think this reflects young people in Ireland, not terrible interested in elections per se but willing to fly home to vote in the repeal of the 8th referendum.

    Is there anything in this election that might get the younger voter out to actually vote to get rid of this Tory government?



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    #13631
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Sheesh, Nick Robinson is tearing Adrian Ramsay apart here, him and his Green Manifesto

    EDIT

    If you haven’t seen this interview, listen to it on catch up.

    The greens in England are loopers….



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    #13632
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299176#Comment_122299176

    I mean, they are anti-rail which more or less tells you all you need to know.



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    #13633
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299361#Comment_122299361

    In what way ?



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    #13634
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299386#Comment_122299386

    In the way that they are in no way a serious party that cares about the environment but are instead just pointless hippies who like trees.



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    #13635
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299394#Comment_122299394

    I don't understand.

    In what way is what you just said related to rail ?



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    #13636
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299399#Comment_122299399

    They oppose HS2 because it involves building a railway line through fields and chopping down some trees despite the fact that it would be single greatest investment in low carbon transport the UK could possibly make.



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    #13637
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299361#Comment_122299361

    Borrow over a hundred billion, don’t believe in borders, legalise all drugs, members standing who want Israel eliminated etc etc

    Did this chap think he was going to get an easy time from Nick Robinson 😂

    This party has to be a front for just stop oil or one of them fringe lunatic groups



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    #13638
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299407#Comment_122299407

    Sadly they were one of a large coalition of people who opposed HS2.

    Not only now mostly cancelled by the Tories they sold off the CPO land so that no one else can easily take it up.

    HS2 would not have had widespread benefit for the general public though and being anti that one controversial project is not being anti rail.



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    #13639
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299422#Comment_122299422

    Sadly indeed, but their opposition made the least sense of anyone.

    Being anti-HS2 absolutely makes them anti-rail. It was and is needed to unleash the possibilities of further rail travel on existing over-burdened rail lines - something the claim to want but are not remotely serious enough to approach in a realistic manner. They talk about increasing rail services in the north and midlands which is impossible without taking the traffic off the existing lines that HS2 would have done. HS2 absolutely would have widespread benefit and the Green Party parroting the utter nonsense about it being about getting to Birmingham 20 min quicker shows just how much they can not be trusted on any serious green matters.

    The Irish Green Party is more serious on almost every metric, and I am not anti-green by any remote definition. However, the UK Green Party are an absolute joke.



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    #13640
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,272 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Just goes to show that FPTP ensures any serious politician, left or right, who wants a serious career is gonna have to pick one of the big three - presumably then leaving the rest to pick up lunatics and idealogues. 'cos whatever one makes of the Greens, they don't tend to be that ideologically extreme as those UK ones appear ot be?



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    #13641
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 977 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    Having a read through their manifesto here and it must be the most un-costed manifesto ever put together, in the history of politics

    SPEND BORROW SPEND BORROW



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    #13642
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299446#Comment_122299446

    As far as I can tell no party really champions cheaper train travel in the UK which is the biggest barrier. The Greens have a vague reference to upping ticket subsidies but across the board it's not as big an issue as it should be.

    Myself and many I know took very long buses up north and out west from London because of the absolutely extortionate prices. Often they only leave you in some motorway carpark outside of the town too.

    I couldn't believe when I moved home and was doing Limerick to Dublin for 15e.

    A lot of the Green support in England is just an "I'm Labour but angry at them" vote. Including myself at times.



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    #13643
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,399 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    When I got involved with the Green Party of England & Wales in 2014, they were positioning themselves as a pro-science leftwing party. It quickly became apparent that they suffered from the same problems you get at the other end of the spectrum - an abundance of people whose views are completely unrealistic and out of touch. Last time I saw them in the news, they were aggressively pushing some sort of ideology around natural births.

    They were big into both housebuilding and NIMBYism. The Brighton & Hove council was controlled by the Greens. There was a massive strike by the binmen, car parking permits took a year to get, it took me 45 minutes to get through to the council to give them money and they didn't approve any new houses.

    They're very anti-car and anti-HS2. The cost of HS2 has soared due to NIMBYism. I hate to resort to the image of hippies but there was little more to them IME. Caroline Lucas being an MP was solely a by-product of Brighton getting flooded with University of Brighton and University of Sussex students during the year.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #13644
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299491#Comment_122299491

    The way to get cheaper train travel is to have more train trips available by building HS2. With the cancellation of the Northern segment they are now talking about having to increase ticket prices just to limit demand as they are so oversubscribed.

    I appreciate I have a particular bee in my bonnet about this, but the UK Green Party opposing HS2 should have been the death of them as a serious green movement and I hope they don't get any seats in the upcoming election.



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    #13645
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299551#Comment_122299551

    "they are now talking about having to increase ticket prices just to limit demand as they are so oversubscribed"

    To be honest that sounds like corporate bollix from the train companies.

    And that's why the prices are high. Privatised rail with fuk all price capping outside of areas like TFL zones. We have 3 bands of tickets on our few big lines with a 10e difference from cheap to busy. The UK model is as bad as Ryanair with a ticket going from £30 up into the hundreds for the same ticket.

    HS2 under this model will most likely price out the vast majority who will still be on buses north.

    The whole thing needs to go back to being actual public transport.



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    #13646
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299569#Comment_122299569

    To be honest that sounds like corporate bollix from the train companies.

    It's not. UK trains are standing room only much of the time even at their current awful pricing. Price capping will not remotely help as the trains are running at basically over full capacity.

    HS2 provides capacity. That always should have been the focus over the "high speed" angle (though when building new capacity why not build high speed!). Literally nothing will fix UK trains other than upgrading lines and building new lines but the Greens, of all people, are opposing it.



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    #13647
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299605#Comment_122299605

    I meant the idea that they "need" to raise prices. I'm not disagreeing with the rest.

    That's not a real solution to the problem. It will just mean the same people will have to pay more.



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    #13648
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    A nice bit of snarky commentary on the UK Green Party's stance on green energy in this video from BritMonkey: (1m45s starting at 18m0s)

    https://youtu.be/b5aJ-57_YsQ?feature=shared&t=1080



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    #13649
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299697#Comment_122299697

    It means the trains will be less crowded - it's pretty standard supply and demand pricing. I agree it's no use to the customers but when you have a walk-up service you need to limit demand somehow.

    And no, it is not a real solution. The real solution is more rail infrastructure…



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    #13650
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299753#Comment_122299753

    Ya supply and demand. Corporate bollix like I said.

    That would not happen on a public service. Price the poor out of the market.



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    #13651
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299783#Comment_122299783

    Supply and demand is not corporate bollocks, it is a well understood economic phenomenon. Several of the train companies in the UK are already re-nationalised. It absolutely would happen on an underinvested public service

    The service can not handle the number of people who are trying to use it. You either lower demand, you dangerously overcrowd the trains (nearly there anyway) or you start refusing boarding to people at the station. You are crippling the service in pretty much all of these approaches. The only solution is building more rail lines.



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