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Dublin - BusConnects

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    they will be compensated for loss of property though, how vis it grounds for a court case?



  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    It's absolute nonsense. I hope it's thrown out and a big legal bill charged to them.

    There is plenty of parking already on site. The enhanced bus route will allow more people, who are able to, to get there using public transport.

    Also, there is plenty of space there to reorganize the parking spaces and reduce the loss to 10 or less. The privilege attached to this is almost beyond belief.

    Post edited by loco_scolo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,632 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I'd love to see the NTA/DLRCC get petty and announce that they'll fully ban right hand turns from Rock Road into Blackrock Clinic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    Obviously their logic is that if you have to use public transport you're probably not rich enough to attend the Blackrock Clinic! 🤣



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I live in Tallaght area. Can I confirm that planning permission has been granted for Tallaght-Christchurch corridor?

    I see lots of spraypaint marking on Greenhills Road recently especially near the Walkinstown Roundabout.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    No it hasn’t.

    So far only the following have been approved and the first two have legal objections:

    • Malahide Road CBC
    • Blackrock / Belfield CBC
    • Ballyfermot CBC
    • Ballymun / Finglas CBC

    No construction work is due until 2025.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    I've noticed that as well, there's an abundance of spraypaint markings along Walkinstown Road from the Roundabout to the LMR/Drimnagh Road junction



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Not to forget the quite large multi story car park on site which (if you are to scroll through all old Google Satellite images) has never actually had its top floor filled…



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,641 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Taking a wrong turn is one thing but ignoring all the warning signs is more worrying.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Again not excusing it at all, but it's not the first time that it has happened. It had happened more or less once a decade.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The planning approvals for the BC corridors appear to have come to a complete standstill yet again, last one was Blackrock in April and only 4 out of 12 schemes approved with 2 of them going to the courts. 2 years has been taken by ABP, absolutely glacial. The vast majority of the rest of them are completely non contentious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭p_haugh




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well spotted - always helps to have eagle eyed posters! ;-)

    Good to see this progressing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    I will admit someone on a different site spotted it, not me. I just reposted the link here 😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Take the kudos LOL.

    Good to have some positive news regardless!



  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    329 pages of writing. No diagrams, just 329 pages of text. Is that really necessary? Is it any wonder it takes 2 years for these things to pass through ABP if that's what they need, or choose, to produce......



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    That’s the ABP decision report.

    The diagrams are all in the extensive EIS that the NTA submitted and which you can view on the scheme website.

    ABP don’t design the project, the NTA does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    I know! My point is why do ABP have to produce 329 pages of hard text to approve a project. Feels like massive overkill.…



  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭GusherING


    They need a reasoned opinion so that it is legally sound and defensible if challenged by way of judicial review.

    Having said all that they could likely adopt much of the same report for each bus correctly and then tailor it for the key issues of concern that were flagged during observation stage for that particular corridor.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Because there are any number of people out there who could try and take the decision to judicial review and it needs to stand up in court.

    I would have thought that much was pretty obvious surely?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It’s a pity we’re such a litigious society that this is necessary in order to swat away all the cranks, but here we are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Jesus, is the second line of your comment really necessary?

    Obviously it's not surprising to you that ABP need to issue a 329 page approval document for a 12km bus corridor, but it was surprising to me.

    Thanks others for constructive responses. It's no wonder it takes so long for ABP to approve anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Well we’ve already got two legal objections, one of over the location of a bus stop. That should tell you an awful lot.

    Sadly we live in a litigious society, and there is every prospect of further attempts at judicial review on other CBCs, particularly the corridors with significant traffic changes or CPO.

    You’ve only to look at the number of actions (often questionable) brought against ABP decisions that are regularly reported to see why they have to go into such minute detail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Thanks. It really shows why ABP is so slow to get approvals out. Obviously there are resource issues there, but given the NIMBY culture in Ireland, this is the result.

    How can a planning authority (in any country) be expected to function, when that's what it's up against.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Quick shout out to the camera enforcement system that we were supposed to have in place by now but has not even been scoped, never mind tendered for, and of course is the foundation of BusConnects, without which the project objectives are unachievable. We can add it to the pile of not-delivered promises on BusConnects.

    Staff shortages aside, a series of project management blunders have dogged the project. Simple infrastructure tweeks such as the signalling at Heuston, the suburban bus hubs and the layout at Ballymun Rd/Griffith Avenue and many others should be done by now but their absence will now hamper the roll out of routes as we've seen on the S2.

    The common sense approach of rolling out the orbitals first to maximise benefits early was not taken, with no rationale offered. Instead the NTA focused on the routes that were simply a renaming exercise, and in doing worsened the staffing shortage.

    Opportunity to implement bus gates early and deliver real improvements to the most unreliable routes quickly was missed (particularly relevant to Mount Brown Bus Gate), without which the G spine roll out (and removal of the reliable 79) was a disaster and has resulted in worse service to the areas involved. The same disaster is destined to be replicated on the A and B spines without bus gates at Rathmines and Stoneybatter. There will be no 'lessons learnt' file prepared after each blunder.

    Failure to deal with the Blackrock clinic and Artane bus stop issues early on has lead to court cases

    Failure to adhere to actual design practice on the south side corridors in favour of more car lanes and unusably small footpaths and substandard cycling widths will lead to further court cases (with actual legal grounds and thus will put these corridors back to drawing board).

    Failure to engage with DCC on the College Green situation will mean last minute re-routes and miscommunication to the public.

    In fact the whole project at this point will likely be unfit for purpose upon completion. The main corridors, even those destined to be sent back to design stage, already have a demand profile more suited to light rail anyway, and the only way to deal with that in the medium to long term is ridiculously large tri axle double deckers.

    It's clear at this point that there isn't sufficient competence at the senior level of the NTA to manage major projects like this. I would have preferred outsourcing or hiring in talent at a premium (as has been done with metrolink). That being said the department of transport and the government are also major obsticles to progress. It feels like the system is set up in such a way that allows public bodies to pass blame between eachother rather than actually just deliver on promises.

    Post edited by cgcsb on


  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,480 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    Are there any maps or updates to the road changes for the quays once the bus gates kick in? It's quite frustrating trying to work it out in my own head which way private cars go, as who knows what changes they'll make to city centre layouts anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The Blanchardstown CBC has now been approved by ABP.

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/313892

    That’s 6/12 approved now.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    And just two going into Judicial Review so far, right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,681 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    With 6/12 approved they must be planning on appointing a contractor to commence construction of these soon, right?



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