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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Long application wait times …

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    #92
    SPINLOX
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭SPINLOX


    8 weeks waiting for.an answer on a substitution rifle. Ridiculous,guard told me 3 weeks ago that there was no problem and that the letter would be with me the following week. I'm going to look for a Meeting to get an answer. I've had firearms for nearly 30 years and no problem



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    #93
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,219 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Daughter is now in week 16 waiting for a licence for her first gun.

    The usual fuckery and bollixing about that always seems to go on here in Cavan.

    Sports shop owner in town tells me the new Super is very anti-firearms.

    Shop owner had a man in looking for a gun safe, on Supers orders at renewal time.

    Man has one gun, a single barrel Baikal, worth about €50, and owned without issue for the last 30 years.

    He bought a €200 gun safe ...



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    #94
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012324#Comment_122012324

    SI 307/2009 requires only a trigger-lock and disassembly,

    image.png

    Commissioner guidelines extends this to some extent, with

    image.png

    the important word being "REASONABLE".

    The next paragraph, remember these are guidelines and NOT LAW, tries to extend this,

    image.png

    If the "public safety and peace" is threathened by this individual, why was the licence issued in the first place.

    Previous court cases have found that applicants for FAC's cannot be refused on the grounds that there is crime in the area or criminals could get them (that is up to gardai to sort out).

    The problem is that people do not want to "rock the boat" or are too afraid to confront gardai, but for the sake of €20 fee to appeal to district court and have Super or Chief stand up in court, in front of a Judge and stand-over and explain his decision.

    People need to grow a pair and stand up to these bullies instead of just complaining on anonymous fora.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #95
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    @tonysopprano SI 307/2009 requires only a trigger-lock and disassembly

    As a minimum standard. Meaning a higher level of security can be demanded if the deciding officer seems it necessary.

    So when you say previous court cases determined an application cannot be refused bases on the area an applicant lives in or the crime rates in that area you may well be correct, but the deciding officer can then impose a higher level of security to "offset" this and the SI above allows for this with the term minimum standards.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    #96
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122012484#Comment_122012484

    Disagree 100%. The LAW states that you have to comply with the MINIMUM standard as stated (lowest common denominator). https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

    "shall comply with the minimum standards in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for those firearms specified "

    Nowhere does it state that there are other standards.

    Minimum Thread depths on tyres are 1.6mm, I cannot be prosecuted or forced to have 2.5mm threads.

    Garda Commissioners GUIDELINES are just that GUIDELINES and are not LAW, no matter how much they think so

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #97
    tonysopprano
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    And just as an example, only yesterday in the Appeal court, a case came up showing just how little both prosecution and defence counsel's AND the actual judge know about law.

    A conviction for careless driving causing death, where both counsel's agreed and told judge that a 4 year ban needed to be imposed, duly imposed by the judge, was overturned, <mod snip>

    Post edited by Cass on

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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    #98
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,557 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    "Nowhere does it state that there are other standards".

    Right below level one security are the "other standards".

    Because you have level one (where it is applicable) only means you have met the minimum standard required for applying.

    The tyre analogy is not germane so moot.

    As for the guidelines, SI 307/2009 is a law, not a guideline.

    The appeal court thing has no bearing on this topic. Also I've edited the last line as it could be construed as technical contempt of court so had to be removed.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #99
    sthilmick
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭sthilmick


    Whats the actual maximum wait time for a substitution? I was told 14 days. I'm over the that. I spoke to the firearms officer and was told it was on the Supers desk for the last couple of weeks. Or is it a "timely manner"?



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    #100
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122290928#Comment_122290928

    Technically it is another license, so same max of 3 months.

    The 2 weeks comes from the commissioners guidelines and is very much a guideline.

    Most districts are faster with subs than renewals or new applications, but it varies.

    One district could be 3 months for a renewal and 2 months for a sub.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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    #101
    sthilmick
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭sthilmick


    Much appreciated Otmmyboy2. You'd hear conflicting opinions on the matter I assumed it would be a max of 90 days just hoping for it to be less. Guide lines for one laws for the other. Not what our Grandfather's fought for.



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    #102
    MickS12
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭MickS12


    Once your application is signed off by the super is the grant letter sent through their office or does come back through the FO?



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    #103
    otmmyboy2
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,514 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301726#Comment_122301726

    Once the application is granted by the Super(or his designate) it is marked as such to the FO and they(the FO) then initiate the grant letter being sent out.
    Just another in a long line of inefficiencies in the system, especially when the Super/designate and the FO do not work synced up shifts, or are taking leave etc.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



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