Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

You bidded against yourself on this house!!

The same argument would conclude that there is no need for any regulators in any Irish market. Banking/Insurance/Energy/Telecommunications/Waste Management etc. etc

Even your local authority. I mean, if there is corruption in your local council, you would be free to go and live elsewhere. Why the need for an Ombudsman so?…………….

As I also alluded to above, why not sell off Irish Water infrastructure? I'm sure some big hedge fund might be interested in it - especially if there will be no regulation or price control. People will have freedom to contract with them or not. So all good.

If your local car salesman sells you a 4 year old car with only 20k miles and assures you that it is in fine condition and never been crashed, then why do we need laws to protect you if it turns out to have been a clocked car with 100k miles on it that was actually written off in a crash? I mean, you had the freedom to contract with him or not if you felt he was a bit immoral/unethical.

Buying and selling property is done so in a free market.

If you think that the property market in Ireland is 'free' I have some magic beans to sell you.

It's one of the most regulated and controlled markets in the state.

 if either party feels there is immoral/unethical activity then don't do business with them pure and simple.

Ah, thats grand so.

Talk about sticking ones head in the sand.

This is the fundamental principle of any business transaction we all undertake every single day of our lives.

Yet, if you buy a pair of socks in JD Sports, the buyer/consumer will have more protection than someone bidding on a property.

Why do you feel the sale/purchase of a property should be any different

It would be great if the property sector came into line with consumer protection in other areas and markets. Why do you think it should stay the same? Should we not demand better consumer protections?

The fairest way to decide what an item is worth is let the market decide.

So you want to strip away the small-ish protections buyers have, and make it a wild west of uber capitalism?

Should we do away with building compliance while we are at it? After all, sure let the market decide and if a house caves in on itself killing people inside, sure you are the sucker who bought it. Am I right?

Regulation does exist in the Estate Agent sector it is not a free for all as you are trying to allude to in your post above. Some regulation is needed in the markets you highlight but it has to be balanced with market efficiencies (whether you want to accept that principle or not).

It is free whether you wish to accept that concept or not. You are not forced to participate you choose to.

You have protection in employing your engineer to inspect the property before purchasing same (deciding if the price is a fair price based on the findings of your engineer etc). You can sue an engineer etc (that's why they have professional insurance).

You also have protection in the contract you sign when purchasing a property.

Building compliance should remain where exactly did I suggest otherwise?

There is a body the Property Services Regulatory Authority but I am sure you knew that.

It is free whether you wish to accept that concept or not.

Cognitive dissonance is strong here.

You don't seem to understand what a Free Market is. The concept has one more to do with economic trade, tariff-free commerce, no trade barriers, and competition between privately owned businesses.

To use that term in the concept of Ireland's property market is a bit of nonsense.

You are not forced to participate you choose to.

Never mind that interacting with the property market is not a choice as if buying a pair of socks.

Access to shelter is a right, so it is proper that the sector is tightly regulated in parts and has good consumer protections built into it. Be it if you are buying or selling a house, or renting one or renting it out.

You have protection in employing your engineer to inspect the property before purchasing same (deciding if the price is a fair price based on the findings of your engineer etc). You can sue an engineer etc (that's why they have professional insurance).

Can I sue the EA given they appear to have engaged in phantom bids?

Building compliance should remain where exactly did I suggest otherwise?

What about the 'Free Market'?

One persons opinion of "sharp practice" is another persons opinion of the operation of a market. You decide which one you feel it is and act accordingly.

of course you can sue but where is your evidence? Or is it just a suspicion based on a gut feeling?

The other bid could have been genuine and they pulled out when got outbid and bought a different house…. From what I can see it’s just a feeling without evidence to back it up so unlikely you would be successful in any legal action.

You are speaking in riddles now.

You want it each and every way. You claim the industry is regulated, but then spout on about a free market. You go on about the 'choice' one has to engage and if they feel something is off, one can disengage, but you make a claim about regulation and oversight which appears to be null and void. So the consumer has little recourse anyway.

We bought a 3-bed mid terrace house last November and ended up paying €40k over asking. It was at the edge of our budget and we felt that, for the size of the property, we were overpaying at the time.

Fast-forward 7 months and one of our neighbours has just sold their house for €150k more than we bought for. Exact same house type and layout. Another house in the same row also sold for €100k more than our place. It's absolute madness at the moment.

I will pose a question to you so. Can you give me an example of regulatory body that monitors each and every transaction (and acts accordingly without some form of "Whistle blowing" or compliant) in the sector they regulate where the products on offer differ so much and are not uniform in price nor can be.

Yes, the stock market for one.

Insurance would be another.

A free market allows for participants to enter and exit it freely. Regulation exists for those to utilise if they feel they have been treated unfairly. Perhaps you want over regulation rather than regulation?

The only thing I would like is transparency in the process and the PRSA to audit their members accordingly. Is that too much to ask?

So possibly it is all genuine and above Board and your just assuming something underhanded took place

It really isnt misrepresentation, it's just advertising/marketing.

Pitch it low, get people in and make them bid against each other. It's horrible, but it's certainly not illegal.

In the exact same way that that agent selling you that investment product on commission for behalf of the issuer isn't subject to any regulation or rules I guess…………… Oh wait, is he? He can't be? No? Why on earth would that be?