Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

I agree - EI mgmt. want conditions attached to going above 12.5%, IALPA want no pre-conditions. Given both sides seem unwilling to budge on their stance, I think today's Labour Court attendance is mostly about optics so both sides can't be accused of not being willing to continue talks (which they have been accusing each other of over the past few days).

I hope this is not the case and something gets worked about but hard to see if neither side is willing to compromise

Why would he "paint a picture of doom and gloom while IAG trouser huge profits out of Ireland".

He enunciated figures to back up his points as far as I heard.

Can you explain how "it doesn't stand up to scrutiny when you look at pilot pay awards for other similar airlines"

Who are " these other similar airlines" and what 'scrutiny' are you referring to"

I would be interested in your answer to that as as I would take it there are very few similar airlines

in the same geographical and economic area as EI.

But I could be wrong….

wow remember them.

Takes me back to the good old recent enough days and flying on the most beautiful aircraft i ever set eyes on, Spanair MD81. 😍

Air lines such as Alitalia, MALEV,

Used to travel "business" quite often on BMI, and for anyone who can remember it was front 4 rows maybe with that blue curtain. You got a copy of the times and a coffee

What evidence do you have that "a lot of middle and senior managers are lifers".

W Walsh a respected exec in the highest echelons of the aviation industry has suggested that the proposed salary increases will harm the airline .Do you disagree with his judgement and why?

What do you mean by "hiring enough staff to cover everything" ?

What is everything?

What companies that you know of hire enough staff to "cover everything"

Clearly never worked in or close to EI no?? 😜😂

Closest direct competitor…. Do ei pilots have the same terms and conditions as FR? Always wondered about that.

Would be interested in hard numbers instead of % increases.

Increases from what?

Good question, I don’t know what FR’s are tbf other than some basic stuff, they work a 4-2 split and rotate between lates and earlies but I don’t think they can bid, whereas EI work a 5-3 split (short haul) and can bid flights, report times etc. Someone with more info on what FR’s terms are can chime in tho.

Edit: FR 5/4 shift patterns as per Wazzles post

Lots of questions there Brendan, but seeing as how I am anon as much as you are who's to say what I know to be true and what you know to be true. For all you know, I could be a 16 year old kid with an interest in big shiny flying things and you could be an Indo hack looking for your next story.

At the end of the day we are on a message board talking but you are oddly specific in your questioning of those who suggest something that is different to your narrative.

In the afternoon it was the London Standard! 😁

😁

Good synopsis there CD, sorry for the kind of forensic response

However when one makes a lot of ‘broad brush’ claims like a lot of EI middle managers are “lifers”

one has to tease that out.

Now I am merely commenting on what I hear on MSM and evaluating their input in what I hope is an fair minded conclusion.

You can rest assured I am not anyone in a journo mode trying to get a story out of this.

Hopefully we can continue to contribute here without any rancour or bad stuff.

The reason for the annual leave difference is Ryanair operate a 5 days on 4 days off roster. Aer Lingus operate a 5 days on and 3 days off roster. Twice a year Aer Lingus operate a flexible roster which means the fixed system is disrupted for 30 days. Invariably it means they work a five days on, two days off roster.

The 44 days leave you talk of only applies to Short Haul pilots. Long haul have the same amount as those quoted in Ryanair, without operating a fixed type roster. Over the course of the year Ryanair pilots have significantly more days off than any Aer Lingus pilot.

The 44 days leave only applies to short haul pilots with significant years of service. Not all pilots receive that and when they do it’s weighted towards the winter months. It cannot be taken in summer.

There is a reason he had those figures at the tip of his tongue (which I alluded to earlier). From a pilots perspective similar airlines are EasyJet, BA, and Lufthansa who's pilots all had recent 20% plus rises. So it seems to be the going rate. You are right to ask questions (and no problem with that at all) but the main issue I had was regarding WW as some kind of independent actor in this when nothing could be further from the truth 🧐

Labour court says they're not intervening for now, will review in July......

The Labour Court statement is a very disappointing outcome for the thousands of passengers affected by the impending industrial action. A plague on both your houses, IALPA and IAG alike.