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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his commanding officer, avoids jail.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,761 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Exactly cases and variants of are daily occurrences, have been for years

    The people complaining now where silent then.

    Bit late to be pretending to care now and they will continue to do nothing to change it and will oppose anyone who does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,329 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    This is a really strange argument. Women started those organisations to "fight their corner" because men had organised society in a way that used the law to keep women subservient.

    If you think things have gone too far the other way, well what's stopping you from doing what those brave women did, and defy society's "rules" to start your own organisation. I mean, unlike women wanting the right to vote, I don't think the police would force feed you for doing so. Do you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Sarcozies


    "Because there are some people who believe that they are victims due to some invisible white privilege and not because blacks are committing crimes."

    Again, these are the same arguments used by some people when a disproportionate amount of black people are victims of violent crime at the hands of a disproportionate amount of black perpetrators.

    I won't speak for you but I know the people who's first retort to a certain gender being the biggest victims of violent crime (men) is to state the majority of the perpetrators hold the same gender (men) would be disgusted at seeing people doing the same thing with race. Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.



  • Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭moonage


    "The reason why this situation is highlighting gender based violence is because in itself is so triggering to women who have experienced the same on a day to day basis in domestic abuse scenarios."

    I doubt domestic abuse victims are being "triggered" by news of a random assault by a stranger on the street. There's no evidence that it was a "gender-based" assault.

    About a third of the perpetrators of abuse in the home are women. Are their male victims also being triggered or is it just the female victims? 



  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭Babyreignbow


    Every single time.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0621/1456015-crotty-reaction/

    A domestic abuse charity has said it has been "absolutely inundated" with calls from people distressed at the suspended sentence given to a serving soldier who beat a woman unconscious in Limerick two years ago.

    Women's Aid CEO Sara Benson said the case was "very triggering" and she said it has also left people angry and very frustrated.

    If a thousand suns were to rise
    and stand in the noon sky, blazing,
    such brilliance would be like the fierce
    brilliance of that mighty Self.”



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  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Sarcozies


    A tiny minority of men did that (with wives who very happy to keep the status quo as they wined and dined in their mansions)

    On the same day that millions of women were given the right to vote in the UK and Ireland, millions of men were also given the same right as you had to own land to vote.

    The millions of men that were forcibly sent to meat grinder during WW1 and managed to survive (albeit with life altering mental and physical anguish) couldn't even vote.

    Im sure you're well aware of all this, however.



  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭Babyreignbow


    https://www.thejournal.ie/natasha-obrien-standing-ovation-6418560-Jun2024/

    In a departure from the traditional business of the Dáil, Ceann Comhairle Seán Ó Fearghaíl said:

    “Thank you for coming here today. Thank you for giving us the opportunity to respond the circumstances that you find yourself in. And I ask everybody here to stand and applaud Natasha.” 

    After the standing ovation was over, O Fearghaíl looked up at O’Brien and said:

    We are on your side.

    Well done Natasha.

    “For the first time since my entire ordeal I feel hopeful that things can actually change… This is a new leaf,” she said. 

    If a thousand suns were to rise
    and stand in the noon sky, blazing,
    such brilliance would be like the fierce
    brilliance of that mighty Self.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I just read what our politicians said about this guy in the Dail today. They are just short of canonising OBrien and orchestrating a public hanging on Leinster st for crotty.

    Not minimising what happen her but it's not his fault he got the sentence he got. If the DPP want to appeal it grand,but how is he going to get a fair hearing in court with all that's being said about him by government ministers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    it’s judge Tom O Donnell they should be on about !



  • Registered Users Posts: 814 ✭✭✭moonage


    It's not just female victims of domestic abuse though.

    EVERYBODY is distressed, angered and frustrated at the suspended sentence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭Babyreignbow


    “Women are now again, making our message heard loud and clear, that enough is enough. Women have now had enough,” she said. 

    If a thousand suns were to rise
    and stand in the noon sky, blazing,
    such brilliance would be like the fierce
    brilliance of that mighty Self.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,877 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    It's like they don't realise that power to build a new prison(s) or reform minimum sentences lies in their own hands …



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Fair hearing? He admitted he beat her. Only after he was informed of the video evidence but there's nothing to hear. He's plead guilty. He beat an innocent woman for no reason. He will forever be rightfully known as a scumbag.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I'm speaking of any appeal by that DPP. That won't be discussing whether he's guilty or not. That's already proven.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And there won't be a jury so it's a matter of a judge making a judgement. The profile this got is entirely of the original judge's creation. O'Brien is entitled to go public with it and I'm pretty happy with the fact that Crotty is most likely terrified cause he's realised there's a decent chance he isn't getting away with it. He's most definitely not deserving of sympathy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    I never thought a Taoiseach would speak so harshly about the Defence Forces but, as he makes clear, he would have spoken even more harshly but for the ongoing legal issue. No one in Leinster House would disagree with him. The military only have themselves to blame.

    “But I think this has also shone a very serious light in relation to the Defence Forces. I think it raises very grave and serious questions. There can be no hiding place in the Defence Forces, nor indeed, in my view, any place for anyone in the Defence Forces who has been convicted of domestic, sexual or gender based violence.”


    Will we hear from the Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces?

    It’s six years now since he called for urgent action to end violence against women and all that time there was terrible violence inflicted on women by members of the Defence Forces. He is even the “Champion World Leader” of the UN Men for Women campaign. Silence is not an option for the Aras.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/06/25/plans-to-pay-tribute-to-retiring-judge-cancelled-due-to-controversy-over-cathal-crotty-sentence/




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    But why are you worried about a fair hearing? He got an unfair hearing in his favour so even if it's unfair now, it balances itself out. Plus, he only has himself to blame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Mark25


    The woman is the victim here 100%.

    But has there ever been a case where there has been such a national protest against a 20 year old at the time of the assault who pleaded guilty in court and had to take whatever sentence the Judge passed.

    I think he should have gone to prison for the assault especially with what he posted after. Everybody will try and stay out of prison - that's only normal.

    TBH if that was me think I would prefer have gone to prison and probably get a minor mention on the day instead of what is happening now and everybody knowing my name address face and what I did



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    How is the conduct of other people at a hearing his fault. He's neither responsible for the army comments or the judges.

    All I can see is a public lynching. That's not justice, that's just mob rule



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    A drunken thug and his tin-eared Commanding Officer have done more damage to the reputation of our Defence Forces than any operational failure in its history.

    Wait til the Chief of Staff appears before the Oireachtas Committee on Defence. The politicians will take slices off him if he tries to wash his hands of this.

    An “It’ll blow over” strategy will blow up in their faces.

    https://x.com/rtenews/status/1805600760190714350?s=61&t=5yJYlU_Z5hOpPzF4_D53ZA



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    You are not listening to Natasha.

    This is not primarily about Crotty. It is about how she sought justice and the system denied her. That is down to the Court and to the Commanding Officer who sang Crotty’s praises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    My comments refer to what the leaders of our government said today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    Justice wasn't done, unless you think it was a fair sentence? He's responsible for his own behaviour, that's what got him into this situation. If this results in harsher sentences for scum like this fella, then that's justice in my book.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It's most definitely not a "lynching" if he gets prison time as a result of a public outcry. There's no question that he committed a violent assault that could have killed the woman in question. So the fact he isn't currently facing any prison sentence is more an example of the system failing. The case being reassessed is entirely fair and any jail time will remain within guidelines for convictions so.

    So it's a rebalancing where he might face more prison time than if the judge had given him two years or something in the first place. But it will still very much follow the rules of our justice system. He's not gonna face any sentence that is greater than what can be given for such an assault so no, he isn't suddenly a victim if he faces a harsher sentence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭sekiro


    Let's see how long this outrage over lenient sentencing lasts.

    Considering this has been an issue for many years, it's strange that this specific case is the one that has people outraged but I suppose it's better late than never.

    A little bit worrying that the main anger seems to be at men in general, the armed forces and the commanding officer who put in a good word for this guy. Not much anger towards the judge for whatever reason and a whole lot of waffling about the historic and current plight of women.

    I'm sure there will be plenty of cases in Ireland in the future where people are getting light sentences for various shocking and disgraceful offenses. Let's see if the outrage is still expressed when that happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    It's very evident that the justice system is not being allowed he independent of government. The government has effectively told the DPP to appeal and the army to get rid of him irrespective of fair procedure going on the comments of Simon Harris today.

    While I believe he should have been jailed, the government and legal system are bowing to public pressure and the justice system is being told what to do instead of being independent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    Sometimes, the public get it right and the government has to implement a change in the legal system. The legal system is clearly not working well for society with regard to sentencing for violent crimes short of outright murder.

    This has been happening consistently under a number of judges who’s names pop up here continuously along with the habitual violent offenders back for their umpteenth slap on the wrist.

    Some judges are abusing the discretion afforded to them when giving sentences, it is time that discretion is reduced or removed for violent offences in my opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Caquas


    There is no political will in Ireland to build more prisons, despite the almost 50% increase in our population in the past 30 years (!) and regular outbursts of public anger at lenient sentencing and violent crime which make women afraid to walk home.

    No political party has made this an issue at the recent elections, not even the plethora of new so-called "far-right" parties (some of their leaders might end up there!). No party will change their policy because of this case.

    Prisons as we operate them are so expensive it would be cheaper to send the criminals to an all-inclusive resort and the prisons probably do more harm than good for the prisoners. Recidivism is rampant and would be much worse except that younger prisoners grow up enough to get some sense.

    The only serious effort to build a new prison - Thornton Hall - was a fiasco of epic proportions and is now being turned into a camp site for asylum seekers.

    Post edited by Caquas on


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Juran


    With all the speeches and handclaps by our leaders, how are they proposing how to PREVENT this from these non-prison sentences happening again and again for violent crimes ? This is the real issue here. Yes, Crotty is scum, but its near impossible to stop all drunken louts and violent men and women, but the government have the power to change legal sentencing requirments and to build more prison spaces.



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