Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

It misses the point entirely, I could easily have said a fella killed in a car crash with a positive covid test he would go down as a covid death….the point was that the death figure was misrepresented which is why so many people didn't know that there was such low excess death numbers in Ireland.

So, you wouldn't answer my 3 points, that deaths, hospitalisations and including people who were not sick had no symptoms in the daily numbers was misrepresenting the impact covid was having.

You wouldn't answer a simple follow up question regarding whether you think it would be easy for a hospital to discern who was put in hospital becuase of covid and who caught covid whilst in hospital.

You wouldn't answer basic questions about the impact of those misrepresentations in terms of Nphet policy.

And you claim to "understand the data"!!!!! You are a complete bluffer, that is all you are!!"

It's statistics based on prediction.

At the risk of repeating this. In 2020 to 2024 Ireland was predicted (based on history and many factors) to have a certain annual death count. In that period around 10,000 deaths due to Covid were recorded, but we also experienced around 9,000 deaths less than normal (due to pandemic effects e.g. less people dying to respiratory diseases, infirm and elderly dying sooner to Covid, etc). Straightforward to do the math there. Basically we didn't have that much of an excess.

Is there a part of that you don't understand?

World of difference between 'missing' the first covid vaccines and the boosters. The gain from the boosters was marginal \ a topup compared to the difference the original vaccination doses made. The original vaccination still provided durable significant protection against severe covid. The infection protection provided by the booster topup waned. So it's a totally different decision to make based on hassle versus benefits. Also, by the time boosters were rolled out to under 50s, the pandemic situation had changed significantly with Omicron and the hassle\benefit decision had changed again. They looked at the recommendation from authorities, did not dispute the benefits \ rationale the authorities gave, but weighed up the hassle versus benefits versus perceived risk and decided not to. They don't go around urging other people to do likewise.

Whereas if you look at the most vocal of those who refused to get the original doses, we can see clear anti vax tropes being disseminated, box ticking bingo of 'big pharma', 'dangerous', 'untested' and even 5g etc. The information from the authorities on vaccination benefits are disputed, usually with misinformation or 'just asking questions' tropes. They attempt to influence others to not take vaccines using these tactics.

And if you have no objection to other vaccines, and are concerned somehow that other vaccine uptake will be affected - it is strange that you do not challenge other anti vax misinformation disseminated on boards, such as about the flu vaccines, or misinformation about covid vaccines that you know to be untrue. I don't recall seeing a single post from you doing so. Punctures your pretence to not be anti vax and somehow concerned about uptake of other vaccines.

Your post content contradicts this in what it says and as importantly does not say. Someone who was not an anti-vaxxer, we would see a balance of posts, pros and cons of what information is under discussion about covid vaccines.

So nope, there's no "of course", not when you are also simultaneously trying to pretend you're concerned about uptake of these 'other' vaccines. You can't even keep up your own charade.

I didn't see any posts from you extolling the benefits of non mRNA Covid vaccines either. So there's another sham your own posts contradict.

You try to distort things and present yourself in some middle ground between anti vaxxers and pro vaxxers, but we don't see any of that in your posts. In your posts it is just constantly negative, all we see in your posts are the standard anti vax tropes. Zero challenging of misinformation about any vaccine, covid or otherwise, mRNA or otherwise.

With added conspiracy theory nonsense about moon landings et al. Quelle surprise.

Here's some of the earlier posts on the thread you have contradicted in the above post.

"Im and engineer with interest in genetics. Ive no problem with Genetic modelling/alteration."

In recent post: "I'm not a fan of genetically modifing anything".

"This is the type of person that puts future Vaccine rollouts at risk."

In recent post: "Of course i dont go challenging other vax misinformation. My only interest is the mRNA Covid one."

Over the course of this thread, you have been at various points:

"Im an engineer with interest in genetics."

"actually am a brilliant and highly successful landlord."

"am into my organic farming"

I think I have provided sufficient justification here to say that your post content cannot be reconciled with each other. The posts come from fantasy island by way of conspiracy theory land. You are an anti vaxxer who will say anything in your posts to try to justify that, even trying to maintain the sham that you are not an anti vaxxer. Anybody with a real argument or case would not need to resort to such embellishments. That is clear.

It seems there's nothing you will say from one post to the next we should afford any weight to, as you are likely to contradict it a few posts later to support a self-serving argument.

But you ignored the scientific evidence of the South Africans doctors, who discovered the Omnicron variant.

Why the need for evidence, we are both in agreement. Onmicron was mild, we all witnessed that. Just like the SA doctors who discovered the variant did.

You took exception to the word "mild". I took the word mild to mean exactly what the doctors said it was, a mild variant. It was mild when it spread from SA and it was mild when it got here!!

Well maybe I misunderstood. I thought you dismissed the scientific view of the doctor who discovered the Omnicron Variant. If that is the case, then I got what you said wrong.

I'm glad we both agree that Onmicron was mild, that's the first time we've agreed on anything!!! The Government at the time didn't get the memo though!!!

The South African doctor did not say it was 'mild', you continue to pick a word out of context from a sentence when you use a single word like that without qualification. If you intend to mean 'mild variant', why wouldn't you just say so?

So no I do not agree that it was 'mild' as a single word description without qualification.

A mild variant, that does not mean mild in absolute terms, that does not mean mild in terms of impact on public health. A milder more transmissible variant of Covid still has the potential to put many cases into hospital.
And we can see from what happened in Hong Kong when a population with a large number of people unvaccinated was hit by Omicron. The impact there was not mild.

The below is exactly what happened.

Some people infected with Omicron and its subvariants have still developed severe disease and had to go to the hospital, and some died. For that reason, experts continued to express concerns that a large volume of cases in a particular area could overwhelm medical centers, making it difficult to treat severe cases…

What in god's name is your obsession about the word "mild". We all know what the doctor meant by the word mild. How are we even discussing this when we agree that Omnicron was a mild variant, just like we experienced, just like the doctor said we would….my god, this is getting weird.

I think you need to go back and re-read the thread, because the only poster you've described there is yourself.

You've shown zero inclination to actually look at the full context of what the South Africans said, you have failed to provide a single source to support your argument, which appears to consist of endlessly repeating the word 'mild' with zero foundation or supporting evidence. Who is this 'doctor'? What was the full context of what they said?

Meanwhile, in the real world, as was cited on this thread with reference to evidence, Hong Kong was severely hit by Omicron when it arrived there; exactly as per the experts cited in the articles posted to the thread predicted. I predict next you will ignore or dismiss the experience in Hong Kong on tenuous self-serving grounds.

I posted a BBC article. The doctor who discovered the variant described it as mild. It was consistent with what the SA experienced. They didn't have the protection of the vaccination rates we had.

We were hit by Omnicron, it was mild. I don't need to produce any documented evidence for something we all witnessed, a mild variant.

It is beyond obscure that there is any discussion on Omnicron, we lived through it. Of course, the experience of living through it was a little different from what our Government were saying at the time…it was bizarre to witness in real time, we were being pumped full of fear, for a variant that was mild….it seems, there are some on here who still can't compute what happened….

yeah, I do

Milder ≠ Mild

Ha ha haaaaaa….you are easily fooled. So, natural immunity only kicked in for Omnicron….do go on…what's the science behind that then?

What are you on about?? The beginning of the pandemic, Omnicron ended the restrictions in this country!!

I know what mild means, I'm not going to get into a ridiculous argument….the doctor who discovered the new variant told us it was mild….you have provided evidence that Omnicron was mild….do you realize that?

Now, tell us about the natural immunity? Was there any natural immunity in the population after the first wave?

Why are you arguing with me, we are in agreement. Omnicron was mild.

https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/safrican-doctor-says-patients-with-omicron-variant-have-very-mild-symptoms-2021-11-28/

You are claiming the BBC and Reuters, and breaking news ( https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/uk-panicking-unnecessarily-over-omicron-doctor-who-found-variant-says-1220267.html ) of peddling fake news…I will include a quote -

“What we are seeing clinically in South Africa, and remember I’m at the epicentre – that’s where I’m practising – it’s extremely mild. For us, that’s mild cases,” she said.

Asked on the BBC’s The Andrew Marr Show if the UK was “panicking unnecessarily”, she said: “I think you already have it there in your country and you’re not knowing it, and I would say, yes, at this stage I would say definitely.

Bear in mind we were imposing much heavier restrictions than SA or Britain and we had the highest rate of vaccination than both…but at the time, you couldn't get a coffee in a cafe without proving proof of vaccination.

You are accusing me of peddling fake news and yet you agree with the articles and me…you just seem to have a dogmatic view on the meaning of mild. Bizarre stuff!!

Yep you are repeatedly peddling fake news about covid.

Did you read the full article you posted. This is what it also says:

"Two weeks from now maybe we will say something different.”

And from the interview with Andrew Marr:

Dr Angelique Coetzee, the South African doctor who first spotted the new Covid variant Omicron, says the patients seen so far have had "extremely mild symptoms" - but more time is needed before we know the seriousness of the disease for vulnerable people.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-59450988

So nowhere does it state without qualification that it will be mild. Thats a response to a small number of cases seen, mostly younger people. It is not in any way a full assessment of the variant and the BBC article makes that clear.

The doctor thinks restrictions are premature but equally public health bodies looked at that and reasonably concluded in two weeks it would be too late to have restrictions. It would be closing the stable door after horse bolted. Precautionary principle.

The article also says, information from South Africa:

Asked if young unvaccinated people are ending up in hospital with the new variant in South Africa, Dr Phaahla said: “Yes. Younger, unvaccinated people … 65 per cent of those they’ve admitted, who are mainly younger people, are actually those who are unvaccinated.”

So there we have it from another source, on the benefits of vaccination even for younger people, even versus Omicron. Even in South Africa.

I know. I get it. And I agree. I also provided links that said the same thing - milder but not mild.

I just don't like people being rude. It's worse than Covid.

Is there a very particular reason for the N95 and Socially Distancing still?

That's a major inconvenience.

I've caught Covid twice, the first lasted a few days, mainly just tiredness, and the second was a day of a cough, but it was around Christmas. The only reason I even tested was because a few of my friends/girlfriends were pregnant and I didn't want to be in close quarters with them.

All in, I'd take having Covid twice as opposed to an N95 and social distancing forever more.

Again you are basing your whole argument on an interview with a single doctor in November 2021, here is what a study published in June 2023, when more data was available, actually said:

The study concluded that the newer strains of SARS-CoV-2 have potential of high transmissibility and milder disease for the population by large, however, for patients with comorbidities have a higher proportion of adverse outcomes, irrespective of the variant.

You can take your point in time, misinterpretation of a single interview, or you could look at the measured studies.

Oh and by the way, it is pathetic trying to make an argument by saying I said something I did not. You are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

OK, sorry to misrepresent you, you believe Omnicron was much more severe than I do. Let's knock this on the head, it's bloody boring!

From https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(24)00018-3/fulltext

“There were variations in the CFRs among different variants of COVID-19 (Alpha: 2.62%, Beta: 4.19%, Gamma: 3.60%, Delta: 2.01%, Omicron: 0.70%), …”

it would appear that Omicron was 3x and 6x less deadly than Delta and Beta, respectively. At the same time it was probably 2x more deadly than a regular influenza.

“Studies found that the Omicron variant was more prone to reinfect individuals with a prior natural infection, suggesting a diminished immune response after infection or vaccination [22]. Additionally, omicron's severity was believed to be lower due to reduced syncytia formation and lower multiplication in human lung tissue [23].”

This would be in line with what I remember - lots of people had Omicron yet the hospitals were far from being under pressure.

According to those figures Omicron was certainly the mildest of all strains on record thus far.