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FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is already insufficient capacity and difficulties increasing it. How do you intend to improve services even more while simultaneously gutting funding?

    There is no need to make public transport free. It is already cheap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Public transport cost is not the problem, most people are lazy and it is easier to use a car

    The bus corridors, with bus lane enforcement will improve and make the system quicker and more viable for people. The biggest issues with buses at the moment is the amount of people who use the bus lanes. Remove them and a quicker service

    Making the service free now will not improve it and will end up with reduced investment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    That is the way I would see it. I see the Government as similar to a Senior Management team in a company where the CEO has the best people in those Senior roles that gives people, be they employees, partners or investors confidence in that company. I see Finance, Public Expenditure, Justice and Health as the 4 most important ministries in the Country and being the ministries where a Taoiseach would want to have the best and most experienced politicians in those roles (I wont say senior because there are some "senior" TD's in the government parties that you wouldn't let cut your grass), TD's with a proven track record of managing resources be they people or budgets and delivering what is needed.

    To me appointment of Chambers to the role of Finance Minister doesn't give out that confidence, its more of a Teachers pet get rewarded than anything else. Similar to the appointment of McEntee to Justice and we see how that has gone. Hopefully Chambers proves me wrong, only time will tell. I suppose Chambers will have Donohue there to guide him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Shocking that you don't agree with the appointment, I was fully expecting this thread after thousands of critical posts abotu the government would welcome him with open arms

    It's gone a bit like "cry wolf" at this stage on this thread

    When every single thing the government does it met with negativity etc then it's just pointless looking to the thread for any sort of reasonable discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Why would most people “welcome” a 32 year old Minister for finance with a background in law and medicine?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Very strange for a first full cabinet ministry. He was only super junior until now. Why not start him off in a less complex portfolio?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It didn't matter who the government appointed adn the same people would complain

    The degree he has is Law and Political science, requires 602 leaving cert points and seems fairly comprehensive(see below)

    Should we only appoint Finance Minister with degree in Finance? or what is your requirements might be easier?

    Law regulates every aspect of social life. From the contracts that we make when we buy products or services to the laws that determine when people can be jailed for committing criminal offences, to significant political decisions, such as the referendum to provide for marriage equality. The two disciplines of Law and Political Science are intrinsically linked and directly impact every aspect of our daily lives. The role and power of the constitution and judiciary, human rights and international law, the impact of the EU and Irish law are best understood when both subjects are considered. This combination provides the opportunity to learn about Law and Political Science and better understand their relation to each other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Blut2


    +1

    Minister for Finance is arguably the most important position in cabinet. The minister should realistically either have strong academic qualifications (multiple degrees in finance/economics), extensive leadership experience in the private sector (senior management positions in large companies) or at the very least lots of ministerial experience (multiple years running less difficult/important briefs like Enterprise or Tourism where they've learnt the ropes and shown they're up to running a department). Or ideally a combination of all three.

    This move reeks of Martin wanting Chambers to be his successor as FF leader so moving Chambers up the ranks far too rapidly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I’m glad someone agrees and look I’m not ditssing the guy- he obviously has brains to burn as they say but yeah, his practical real world experience for a life in politics but especially managing a demanding portfolio that assumes a high degree of knowledge around the workings of the economy and with so much at stake right now, it needs an experienced hand - I’ve no interest in him taking the next few years to learn from his mistakes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    see above- academia is all very well but he has little real life experience - had he a PhD in economics with a few years of lecturing behind him I might actually respect this appointment more - he needed a few years more to get to grips with understand and address the economic concepts that ultimately make a great finance minister - there’s no way he has that knowledge right now given he only finished medicine in 2020



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That makes no sense, he is 33, hardly a kid. Should we only hire politicians with "real life experience" and a PhD in economics to the Minister for Finance?

    Who would you have hired in his place? both from the government parties? and who would you recommend from the opposition out of interest?

    FYI 4 years is a long time. Good luck to you getting a job and telling the company after 4 years you will have no knowlegde



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    it makes loads of sense, when talking about the most senior and most important role in cabinet right now - Even John Bruton who was 34 on 1982 when finance minister had 10 years of political life under his belt and exposure to many departments - and we all know how his 1981 budget turned out now don’t we 🤪



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Totally agree. The hardest part is often dealing with the department civil servants. Whipping obedient TDs and running local election campaigns does not give you that experience.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Agree and also- he HAS to have an economic strategy that he can articulate to the public - we have so many challenges economically right now, both the markets and the public need reassurance that he’s in control and on top of this portfolio- out of all the ministries, this one doesn’t come with a honeymoon period - you deliver or you’re out - it’s the one ministry that people will remember come election time



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So it's time as a politician you want? Chambers has been in politics since 2014, local councillor and a Mayor, then a TD since 2016

    That's 10 years of working in government

    Honestly you checked nothing into his past, you had no idea what his degree was or the entry requirements. Like most on here the government appointed someone and it was auto negative response.

    Maybe you could provide a list of other TD's in government and in opposition who you would recommend? all parties have a nominated spokesperson on finance from what I know so which of those?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I clearly stated above what his last degree was- and being Deputy Mayor in 2015 is hardly a major CV achievement for Finance Minister now is it- and considering he’s been studying medicine up to 2020 hardly a 10 years in politics career?
    But obviously you love him - good luck so with the next budget and the economy if that’s the sort of person you’re willing to place your economic future with



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    As usual once a discussion starts on this thread it quickly descends to childish comments like the above.

    I guess you won't bother with the list of alternatives. Didn't expect you to, best of luck on your travels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭Oxo Moran


    To be fair to Chambers, look at the Taoiseach. No qualifications, no work experience outside of politics, incompetent in all but excelling in his career, which must be commended based on what he's working with.

    Sure see how he goes, he can't be any worse than Helen McEntee, Catherine Martin or Darragh O'Brien.

    Some premier league line up when you look at it 😁



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭howiya


    While I would share your concerns at the same time I do realise that the list of candidates is limited to the Fianna Fail parliamentary party (excluding MEPs). I don't know if they've overlooked anyone in particular within that group.

    Ultimately Jack is good at the game (politics) and that's why he's got it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I don't know what Dara Calleary but whatever it was Martin hasn't forgiven him. He might have been a more obvious appointment as he was the Opposition spokesperson for Expenditure and reform from 2016 - 2018 but for some reason was dumped by Martin when forming the government even after being FF chief negotiator. He has been a TD since 2007 so has experience and was Chief Whip as well until golf gate. But alas Chambers seems to be the rising star now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Blut2


    As Minister for Finance he can do a lot more damage than McEntee or O'Brien, if hes equally incompetent. Thats the problem.

    Its why the position is usually reserved for people who are already proven to be competent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,325 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    A lot of politicians over the years have had to deal with grave economic matters without much background in the field, including Chambers's own political 'forefather' Briain Lenihan Jr. Apparently David McWilliams had to sit Lenihan down and explain the basics of economics to him when he came to McWillians for advice on how to handle the brewing financial crisis. Barack Obama round the same time was another guy with no specific business/economics expertise…



  • Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭Oxo Moran


    I was being sarcastic. At least McGrath will be off to do some good for Ireland as EU Commissioner, at over 400,000 a year, (also sarcasm).



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,648 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    We don't appoint technocratic governments, we elect TDs, who select a Minister, that is democracy. We have had plenty of people getting into the Dail who are not qualified for any job. As much as I don't like it on occasion, it is what the people have voted for.

    Ray MacSharry, widely considered to be one of our best Finance Ministers had no third-level education, and ended up a European Commissioner.

    I think you are just making things up to have a go at the government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I’ve written no childish comments and what’s more, I’m taking this discussion very seriously as some youngster with no background in the economy or finance may well just wreck the economy in the next year or so - you on the other hand have shown no justification whatsoever why he should be Minister for Finance - I’ve no interest in engaging with you if you’re just going to make baiting comments



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    Yep- it’s obvious to you and me also - to some here, it’s just like another portfolio like Minister for Sausage rolls



  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75


    Hopefully young Jack has enough good sense to give people substantially more money back in their pay packets.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If you think telling a poster they love him is not childish well then I don't really know

    As you can't provide a single alternative in any party in Ireland, government or opposition, it would suggest another in a long line of poster who no matter what the government does they will just whinge about it



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