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land advice,

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  • 27-06-2024 1:12am
    #1
    sam ford
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭


    Good morning, i recently inherited 20acres in common tenancy with a brother from an uncle, the land in question is land locked with acess via a neighours land unregestered right of way, any way i got a solicitors letter from my brother asking for me to buy his share out, or for him to buy my share out or go to court, a situation i feel i am not able to deal with through annoyance and shock, i asked a solicitor he says sell it to him or else this goes to court which i dont want, also if this goes to court the judgement could be to sell at public auction, but the right of way does not exist, so will make very little, with auctioneers fees, legal fees etc, mounting up, what should do, thanks in advance



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    #2
    148multi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭148multi


    The three issues are separate but linked,

    First are you interested in farming it yourself or buying your brothers share, and what would you ideally like to do with the property, secondly from my understanding people who leave property as tenancy in common do so to prevent it's sale.

    The question of the right of way is totally separate, but will impact price, this can be good or bad depending on what you want. Being land locked it's worth less with or without registered right of way.

    Getting the right of way sorted is more of a long-term issue and hard to justify doing it through the courts for 20 acres IMHO.

    You need a plan of what you would like to do, then see if it's worth doing .

    Have you talked to the neighbour to see if he has an interest in the property now or at anytime in the future

    Would your neighbour consider swapping 20 acres now or in the future

    You need to talk to a good conveyancing solicitor outside of your area for advice, but with a plan you have for the land. It easier to travel a road if you know where your going, solicitors and judges will pickup on indesion, you need to figure out what is best for you.

    . What was the land valued at, for stamp duty and land type and potential.



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    #3
    blackbox
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭blackbox


    It sounds like your brother is the one driving this.

    If he is keen to make it happen he should make you an offer well above the open market rate.

    I'm guessing the land is not of much use to you, unless it is your farm that has it landlocked.



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    #4
    Squatman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,600 ✭✭✭Squatman


    make him an offer, and if your not embarrassed by it, lower the offer



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    #5
    minerleague
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭minerleague


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058357486/land-advice

    Why would it end up in court if neither of you buys the other out?



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    #6
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,907 ✭✭✭893bet


    what type of land is it? How has it been accessed for the last 20 years? Was your uncle farming and accessing it? Who owns the land around it? How is the relationship there? How is the relationship with your brother? Are either of you currently farming? If so do any of you border the land?



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    #7
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Hard to tell from the description but as regards "going to court", I would suspect that either party can force a sale - albeit not to themself. i.e. if either insist on it being sold then it would be put up for sale/auction. As an alternative, both parties could agree that one would sell to the other. But that would be based on agreement. Because the other party could still buy it via the auction. (Such arrangements might scare off buyers though if there is bitterness involved and the other person is trying to buy back their own land)

    Given that you got this news via a solicitors letter, it would not appear to be a great start.

    To me, if you both were ambivalent between buying it and selling it, one way might be for one of you to pick a figure at which you are either happy to buy it or sell it and be bound to that figure. Although given the above regarding communication, that might not work out. What I mean is that, say your brother comes up with a figure of 100k and says he will be happy to buy you out at that, or accept that to be bought out at. This method would be unfair though where one party would be in a weaker position in terms of not being able to come up with the money.



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    #8
    TinyMuffin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    capital gains tax will probably come into it.



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    #9
    sam ford
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭sam ford


    Nether are farming at all.



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    #10
    minerleague
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭minerleague


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312645#Comment_122312645

    So does that mean place would be sold or leased out or do you have interest in farming it? What happened your uncles herd number? If you aren't interested in farming it I'd say sell your share and be done with it.



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    #11
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,907 ✭✭✭893bet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122312645#Comment_122312645

    no one can advise as you have given 1/4 of the story and not answered most of the questions probing for information.



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    #12
    148multi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭148multi


    There's more than one way to get an answer.

    Screenshot_20240628-123752_Chrome.jpg

    Why don't you ask you brother to make you an offer, if it's high sell, if it's low add another thousand and make it your offer.

    Or is it just a competition between siblings



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    #13
    StoutPost
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭StoutPost


    Based only on what was written, which I feel doesn't give enough detail to give the full story, I would take the following initial steps.

    Decide what you want to do with the land, minus the brother. Do you want to keep it or dispose of it?

    You possibly need three on the ball professionals - not small town duds - a tax consultant, an auctioneer, and a sharp solicitor familiar with land laws not just sleepy title changes.

    The tax consultant needs to advise you on your liabilities in disposing of or keeping the land.

    The auctioneer ought to be able to give a reasonably accurate picture on what the parcel will realise on the market - yes it will be lower than land that has independent access as realistically it'll only interest landowners it already bounds.

    The solicitor is where it get's interesting. I have some experience in rights of way but I am not a solicitor. I know that three farmers pass over my lands to access other lands. There are no registered rights of way for any of them. But, if I were to lock them out they could bring me to court and I would lose.

    In other words they have established an agricultural right of way, but it's just not registered.

    This is something you must find out about your land. If your brother is being a bollocks, you could offer him a low price he may be happy with then you may possibly be able to establish a right of way to the land yourself, immediately increasing it's value. Perhaps you may need to start farming, perhaps your uncle was farming it - this level of detail is where I bow out.

    I would not act until you find out for sure if that option is available to you, and what rights your brother may have if you go that route.

    Leaving single pieces of land between two or more people should be against the law, it only brings out poison.



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    #14
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,317 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    What the brother has done is very specific TMK. Whoever makes an offer to buy, could find themselves having to sell at that price + €1.



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    #15
    148multi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭148multi


    If Sam has an interest in keeping some or all of the land he will have to engage with the brother's solicitor. As a judge may take a dime view if he doesn't, and order the sale of the entire plot.

    Sam appears to have 4 options in my opinion.

    1- sell all the land and devide the money

    2- sell his half to his brother

    3- buy his brother's half

    4- agree with consent and legal fees to partition the two halves physically and legally.



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