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Biden v Trump (and one or two others) The US Presidential election 2024. Read OP before posting

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    #302
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313253#Comment_122313253

    I reckon the democrats thought Trump would be history at this stage. Biden was good enough to beat trump in 2020 and they got their strategy right there. But it’s like they have no plan for a resurgent Trump. This was not supposed to happen. The republicans were supposed to have reformed and have a different ‘ business as usual ‘ candidate to beat Biden. This is woeful bad strategy by the democrats. They have a few weeks to sort this out. They should have been sorting it out over the last 4 years.



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    #303
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,295 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313183#Comment_122313183

    100% this. But it'll be lost in all the hysteria about Trump burning down the world which we heard last time too.

    Trump is an arse, a sleezeball and a crook. That sums up 90% of politicians. But Trump is also a showman and a sensationalist.

    None of that means that he's the next Hitler and trying to make that the headline is half the reason that even before the debate Trump had the edge in many polls. It just doesn't hold up to scrutiny for the average American.

    The other reason is that Biden is clearly in cognitive decline and has been for quite some time. But I seem to remember everyone who pointed that out years ago being vilified in here...



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    #304
    Vicxas
    Registered Users Posts: 15,355 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Who would replace him though? Kamala Harris wouldnt get anywhere near the votes Biden would, especially in the swing states and the outliers in the South. Is there any Democrat that has any sort of Charisma that can be prepared to go head to head with Trump?



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    #305
    20silkcut
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313381#Comment_122313381

    It’s not Trump himself ( he is too lazy anyway ) that is the big fear it’s what comes after him what he enables and what precedents he sets. Trump is basically demonstrating that being an asshole is good and will get you results. We all know that but i wouldn’t like to be rearing kids in a world that nakedly espouses the benefits of Ass hole- ism and rewards and encourages it.



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    #306
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,281 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Untitled Image

    Hmmm…



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    #307
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,611 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    It was a disaster for Biden.

    Trump has a cohort of voters who are going to vote for him no matter what, but there's no way the Biden camp can be confident that those voters who came out to support him so urgently last time will do again.

    Get Gavin Newsom in there. It'd be unprecedented and all that, and the Republicans and their media would make a big deal and cry foul, but all that would pass, and he'd utterly destroy Trump in debates.



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    #308
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313421#Comment_122313421

    ramp up military investment in europe and ireland should really be contributing more



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    #309
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313381#Comment_122313381

    Yes they totally were vilified here in the last year including mod warnings - and when we raised it, it was taken that we were just imitating Trumps “sleepy joe Biden” mocks which couldn’t be further from the truth- we recognised that all was not well with Biden and called it as we saw it- they were totally genuine comments from concerned observers and posters- what was scary for me at the time was seeing how such conversations were shut down - I know this site isn’t about total freedom of expression but the curtailment of opinion on that topic really took me aback



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    #310
    Raoul Duke III
    Registered Users Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭Raoul Duke III


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313389#Comment_122313389

    Gretchen Whitmer. Who would have the very considerable advantage of locking down Michigan.



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    #311
    DrPhilG
    Registered Users Posts: 12,295 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Rather than endless "replace Biden" discussion, does anyone know the actual legislative process?

    Since Joe is in place, my understanding is that if he steps down or is forced out, Harris is automatically President. And from what I can see she's a blithering idiot without the benefit of being able to blame her age.

    So would Joe need to step down, AND Kamela? If the Democrats push Joe out but then refuse to give the (female, person of colour) VP the spot in his place they'd bring outrage from the progressive side.

    So can anyone in the know confirm whether there is actually any substance to that plan?



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    #312
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,074 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313440#Comment_122313440

    Pretty reckless of the Republican party leadership, Joe's inner circle and advisors to allow him to participate in a debate, knowing his issues. Are they all in some sort of collective denial? Afraid to say that the king has no clothes?

    They'd want to wake up very quick or Trump will be a shoe in.

    Surely any younger, sensible, sane alternative from the Democrats with reasonably clean hands will likely prevail over Trump.



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    #313
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    IS it my imagination, or has Bidens cognitive decline come on very fast?

    He seemed to be ok up to maybe 18 months ago, now he is a disaster.

    He often looks like a man who doesn't know where he is or what he's meant to be doing. I know he is 82 or whatever, but the rate of decline is very worrying.



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    #314
    scottser
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭scottser


    So the debate was aimed at convincing 'double haters' to soften their stance toward one side or the other and make casting a vote a bit more palateable. From what I've seen, they'll be even more convinced that a vote for neither is the sensible and ethical option. Trump is a malignant narcissist and inveterate liar while Biden looked worse than we've ever seen him in ages. It's shaping up to be a record low turn-out for this election, which is great news for mushroom-dick.



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    #315
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313271#Comment_122313271

    I think there is a lot in this theory - Dems called for this unnecessary debate now to see if Biden if was capable of it.

    If he showed he wasn't, there is still time to replace him, or if he performed well they could carry on with Plan A.

    If they waited until the scheduled presidential debates, it would have been too late to replace him.

    After last night, the writing is on the wall - there is zero chance Biden is the Democratic candidate come November.



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    #316
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭hometruths


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313512#Comment_122313512

    It is has been apparent throughout the course of his presidency, but any acknowledgement of Biden's ongoing cognitive decline has had a whiff of the Emperor's new clothes about it.

    Up until now it has been considered bad form to point out the obvious.



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    #317
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,511 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Biden looks like a guy who should be sitting at home with his feet up and a cuppa, not in the most powerful job in the world.

    If he runs, he'll lose (imho).

    Trump is also prone to losing his train of thought too these days. How did the choice come down to these two??



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    #318
    crusd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,233 ✭✭✭crusd


    Got to think at this stage that this it what the DNC secretly hoped for. The debate is 3 months earlier than any previous debates and you got to now think they wanted this to give time for a replacement.

    How does Biden withdraw though and remain president until January? If they say he is not up to it there will be a carcophony of calls for him to stand down. And if he was to stand down as president Kamala Harris would be hard to shift as the default alternate candidate and to me she is virtually un-electable



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    #319
    sock.rocker*
    Registered Users Posts: 682 ✭✭✭sock.rocker*


    Yep, imagine trying to shift a black woman from the default spot.



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    #320
    Mr E
    Registered Users Posts: 55,509 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Where was the Biden from the SOTU? He didn't look good last night.



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    #321
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,868 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313505#Comment_122313505

    Depends of what you mean by stepping down. As president there is a line of succession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#:~:text=The%20order%20of%20succession%20specifies,Cabinet%20secretaries%2C%20depending%20on%20eligibility.

    Not running against Trump that is down to the Democratic Convention



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    #322
    CONSI
    Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭CONSI


    Could Joe step down, Kamala in as babysitting president but say she doesnt want to run. She still gets the kudos of being the first woman president, even if for a few months…not like she will get any policy in this close to the election.



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    #323
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,690 ✭✭✭SteM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313617#Comment_122313617

    No teleprompter in front of him last night was a difference maker I'd guess.



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    #324
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,931 ✭✭✭Cordell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313512#Comment_122313512

    It's not fast and certainly it's not something new, but until now the incidents were contained, he was managed out of those situations and they were covering it up as maga crowd lies and deep fakes. He's clearly unfit to be the president, he should be removed from office now, forget about running for another term.



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    #325
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,412 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I've no sympathy for the Democratic party ending up in this position - it's been an obvious problem for a very long time now, and it just took this one debate for it to inevitably escalate into crisis. They got themselves into this disaster, and may have handed Trump the presidency regardless of what happens next.

    But the only sensible course of action now is for a change of candidate to happen quickly. Biden should step aside of his own volition - own the problem himself. Another candidate has enough time to gather momentum. It's Trump's to lose still, but at least a new candidate will shake up the race and change the conversation. Trump's still wildly unpopular outside his base - a fresh candidate at least has a chance, however remote.

    I don't think there's nearly enough time to get a candidate who is actually what the Democrats need - someone with an actual progressive vision rather than another establishment liberal to maintain the destructive status quo. But it'd be madness to persist with the Biden strategy.



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    #326
    monkeybutter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,607 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    Hubris

    Bernie would have beaten trump in 2016 and this future would never have happened



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    #327
    JVince
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭JVince


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313505#Comment_122313505

    Very simple process.

    At present Biden has won all virtually democratic primaries & caucuses (3894 delegate votes v 39 against)

    The delegates are obliged to vote at the nomination convention in the way the primaries & caucuses have dictated.

    If Biden is no longer a nominee, this frees up all 3894 delegate votes and they can vote for whatever candidate their state or caucus chooses from those nominated.

    Effectively a free vote and it may take 4 or 5 rounds of voting is several candidates put their name forward - many will have no hope, but will want to get their name out there



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    #328
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,720 ✭✭✭✭briany


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313662#Comment_122313662

    Bernie would have mobilised the younger more left leaning portion of of the Democrat base, but turned off the older centre-right crowd, so it depends on what the difference in those groups' number was if it were to be mean a boost in numbers over Hillary.

    Anyway, at least Bernie stands for things, as opposed to Hillary who had no message other than generic focus grouped soundbites.



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    #329
    gym_imposter
    Registered Users Posts: 927 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313662#Comment_122313662

    You really don't understand America if you think someone like Bernie Sanders would have been allowed become president



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    #330
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122313589#Comment_122313589

    It’s a mess TBH- Is the talk about Michelle Obama just “talk” or could there be something happening behind the scenes? Lots of “gossip” about Michelle not supporting Bidens campaign right now after some falling out or other but I wonder is there something afoot.
    I imagine Biden would stay in power until end of his term even if he decided not to go a second term?



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    #331
    Rain Spreading From The West
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭Rain Spreading From The West


    WTF are a 81 year old and a 78 year old doing running for president anyway? People older than the US retirement age on the first day of a prospective first term in office shouldn’t be allowed run. Harsh I know, but it stops what we are seeing now with Joe Biden.



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