Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

How hard is it to fire someone

  • 10-05-2024 8:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭


    I was wondering how hard it is to fire someone in the public sector? Say you knew they were dossing or taking much longer lunch breaks, could you fire them? Is it as simple as if you don’t want them you can let them go or is it hard?



«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Public sector?

    They’d have to have stolen something valuable. I remember in my time in a local authority a lad was getting work done on his house and used an order book from work. How he thought he’d get away with that I don’t know. They didn’t sack him but gave him the opportunity to resign.

    You’d find it very difficult to sack someone who was just doing their job poorly. Half the place could be sacked if that criteria was used.



  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭Marymoore


    thanks for the reply… what about if you were skipping work and only turning up half the days



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Make that three threads!



  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭Marymoore


    4 actualy..



  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭Marymoore


    go worry about ur own stuff



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 756 ✭✭✭RonanG86


    Unless they're relatively new, and whomever they're reporting to has had the minerals to refuse to sign off on their probation, the answer is it's possible, but will probably take ages.

    That being said, if someone is literally not turning up (are they office based?) when they're supposed to, that might make it a bit more expedient. Is the person pulling sickies (6 uncerts in 3 years is the max), claiming they have COVID, burning up all their annual leave, or just shrugging when they're asked where they were yesterday?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,882 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    You can be sure senior management already know and are unwilling to deal with it. You could of course ask your boss.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 404 ✭✭Ted222


    The answer is that it’s possible but it firstly depends on the will of the organisation to do so.

    After that, it can be tricky if the person has been in place for more than 12 months. Underperformance to a level that warrants dismissal is a difficult measure to establish. Not turning up however is a fairly serious offence which could be escalated quite quickly if there’s sufficient interest.

    It sounds like the individual has been given free rein over a long period of time and is taking advantage. It’s a failure of management as well as any personal shortcoming on the part of the individual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've seen it a handful of times. They were managed out. Given awful jobs and no promotion or increments. Almost all left eventually.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭I am me123


    As far as I can tell from my knowledge of employment law, an employee can be 'let go', for a reason, or no reason during the probationary period, with no employment rights until after 12 months service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    They can, but the discrimination laws still apply.

    I worked in a company where an man maybe 15 years older than the rest of our team was hired. A few months in we determined it wasn't working out, but HR wanted a whole lot of actions from us so that when we eventually let him go, he couldn't say we did it due to his age.

    Remember no company wants their name in the paper over something like this, so never think you have a free pass within the probation period.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    But neither does an employee! And these days with agencies do background checks and needed to justify their fee, a lot of stuff can come back to haunt someone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19 Rescue Blues


    I'm public sector and we get 4 uncerts (self certs) a year. That would 12 in 3 years. There are specific rules as to how you can take them though. I don't think there's many employees who don't use all 4 days each year.

    There's a well known story about one employee in the company who took no sick days throughout his whole career. Close to retirement he went up to have a meeting with the head manager along with a union rep. They asked if there was anything they could do to acknowledge this. He was told 'no', and that "those days are there to be taken"!

    Post edited by Rescue Blues on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭yagan


    I worked for a semi state once where I was hired just to look after one particular project that would run for a few years. I loved the project, it was great and suited my career but as the project was finishing I was told by my immediately line manager that I'd be brought into HQ, given a desk and probably told to just count pencils as they didn't have anything else that suited me.

    In fairness once I said no thanks they let me take my time lining something else up. That line manager was pretty much watching the clock until his retirement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think that's different just killing time until the next bus arrives. Be that retirement or a new job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    "I don't think there's many employees who don't use all 4 days each year."

    That's not my experience. Almost all of my team and colleagues don't use all four days each year. Those who do use all four days each year tend to have significant underlying health issues.

    Posts like this would routinely be recruited as fixed term specific purpose contracts, so when the project finishes, the employee departs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,055 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    How many of those are genuinely fixed term project, though. The engineer might be, they're probably building something specific. But the public arts and literacy needs are not going away at the end of N years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    That's true - more to do with funding restrictions and government priorities that the term of the need.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭salonfire


    That's not my experience. Almost all of my team and colleagues don't use all four days each year. Those who do use all four days each year tend to have significant underlying health issues.

    The organizations staffed by people out to grab as much as possible - and willing to risk the education, welfare and health of Irish citizens in strike action to do so - are giving up free money?

    Pull the other one.

    Edit:

    Just confirms my point, post #7 here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122545668/



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,509 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    What did the Romans ever do for us eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's just a bit silly to keep banging on with the tired old trope that tries to position public service staff as some kind of different race with different motivations to others. Don't most employees, public and private sector, want to "grab as much as possible"? Aren't all those calls for small government and reduced taxation 'willing to risk the education, welfare and health of of Irish citizens'? This kind of stereotyping is fairly lame.
    Public servants aren't a different race. They're a broad church, with all kinds of different motivations. The main thing they have in common would be that if they really wanted to 'grab as much as possible', they'd be working elsewhere.
    You've clearly no personal experience of sick leave practices within public service.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭salonfire


    It's a well deserved reputation as evidenced by one of your colleagues in the other thread I linked to.

    Those in the food sector don't withhold food from you if a cut in tax is not given. Likewise your plumber, etc.

    Where as the public employees actively cheered on withholding their services on these forums unless the Government give into their demands in the last pay talks, targeting the children and the sick.

    The morals and motivation of the public sector employees is miles apart from the hard working private sector. Don't kid yourself. Civil servants are more than willing to defraud the state and use sick leave for additional annual leave. Everyone knows what goes on.

    Post edited by salonfire on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'm not sure if you've heard of the concept of 'strikes' or 'industrial disputes', where staff withdraw their labour which generally result in withholding of services, whether that's flights abroad or call centre phone answering or indeed (in contradiction of your claim) plumbing services; https://www.thejournal.ie/construction-site-strike-august-2024-6471797-Aug2024/
    You may also have missed the fact that the last couple of decades have largely been peaceful in terms of industrial disputes in the public sector.
    If the best you have to rely on is 'everyone knows', the standard Liveline trope, you're not getting very far.
    As for morals and motivation, wait till you find out about how many people work in both sectors, sometimes at the same time, and sometimes chopping and changing sectors as suits them. They're the same people



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Yeah, I heard of industrial disputes. It's a handy pretence for those mostly earning in the upper echleons of the scale to target the vulnerable in society and strong arm Governments into caving into demands. It turns my stomach.



  • Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭StormForce13


    "…..the upper echleons of the scale…" suggests a reading age of 12.

    Why try to use big words when it's clear that you (a) don't understand their meaning and (b) can't even spell them correctly?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You really don't seem to understand industrial disputes. Industrial disputes happen in the private sector. Like pilots, and plumbers, and call centre operators. Maybe you'd like to expand on how those disputes involve 'targeting the vulnerable' and 'strong arming Governments into caving in'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭salonfire


    They don't because generally speaking those in the private sector have greater morals than the public. That's my point. Nurses for example are quite willing to let cancer patients suffer while they stand at the hospital entrance. Sickening.

    If the private sector had the same morals as the public, we'd be facing food, fuel, clothing shortages every time there was a grievance against employers or the government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Either you have no clue about how industrial disputes in health services work, in terms of protecting essential services, or you're just blatantly lying. But yeah, please do tell us more about the greater morals of the financial services staff that bankrupted our country, and tech staff that are addicting our children to their devices while sucking every available spark of power off our grid, and the pharma staff that are addicting the population to all kinds of medication, and actively ensuring that actual causes of medical conditions aren't addressed. This should be fun.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭salonfire


    Thanks for providing me with more examples of the continuity of supply we can depend on from private employees! Quite a world apart from the shambles, money grabbing government employees, quick to hold fellow - the most vulnerable citizens - as pawns against the Government.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cardiac-and-cancer-surgeries-cancelled-due-to-nurses-strike-1.3786012



Advertisement