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Discovering Increasing Automation in my new car

  • 29-06-2024 8:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭


    Yesterday I collected my new pride and joy, a Toyota RAV4 hybrid, and am discovering the tech on board by driving it. Sales execs hardly even bother to point out the advanced features in cars any more, as they are becoming more and more advanced by the day without even fully detailing these advances.

    I have MS, and wanted a car that’s easy to drive, can carry mobility aids, and have plenty of safety feature. I traded in a four year old Toyota CH-R hybrid, which was a very decent car, and got a decent value from the dealer

    I was pleasantly surprised at the features I hadn’t been told about, and discovered for myself. The test drive was very good, but it is even better in “real life”. I find that if I attempt to exceed the speed limit, not alone do I get an initial warning sound, but the pedal offers resistance, until I slow down to keep within limit.

    I’m being warned about speed bumps ahead, and “children about” warning signs. With the app, I was verbally advised of traffic ahead on my route today without setting any routing.

    Reversing into my tight underground space against a wall is a breeze. It is an almost idiot-proof car.

    It is all positive going forward for safety on our roads. Has anyone else been pleasantly surprised about the modern tech aboard your new(/ish) cars?

    Post edited by LIGHTNING on


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Only when I sat in the car with a manual did I discover it can park itself. It's a bit of a disconcerting sensation but also kind of neat. Proximity alerts, pedestrian alerts, front view cameras…none mentioned by the salesman.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    Might this had been a Ford Focus? I remember when a firm of self-parking was/is offered on some models.

    I’ve been distracted with things over the weekend but will take a closer look at my car manual tomorrow to see what I might be missing.

    When I was listening to Oliver Callan on Radio 1 fairly recently I heard a lad from Limerick who, after difficult early years in relative poverty and with dyslexia, turned out to be of very high i collect and is running a global company developing and producing sensors for cars to enhance safety. He said his idea is not to make cars driverless, but to greatly enhance safety, and that these products are already in quite a few car models but will become a basic standard in about 10 years and the upmarket models will have even more enhanced features using sensors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,074 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    A friend picked up a new BMW some time back. He had a garage in which he kept a car occasionally and on account of the lovely new paintwork of the beemer, he decided to drive it into the garage that particular night. Anyway he was over-enthusiastic with his approach to the garage rear wall and the vehicle decided that he was a liability to himself so performed an emergency stop, started the hazard lights flashing and cut the engine and left him looking like a complete plonker in his new moo seats and lipstick-red paint.

    …and that's how he found out that he had forward collision warning/detection system on his new BMW.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,204 ✭✭✭amacca


    I don't think it's all positive...I dislike a lot of the driver aids in my new car ..

    So much so that I knock them off...there's a lane departure thing that pisses me off no end...there are times when I need to go over a line without my steering wheel being jerked the other way....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,779 ✭✭✭✭fits


    yeah I think it’s brilliant. My ID.3 stopped me backing into things a few times eg low walls.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    I wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford Focus.😱



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,329 ✭✭✭barneygumble99


    Recently drove the new Tiguan for a week. Automatic, front assist , adaptive cruise control, lane assist, closest thing to a self driving car. Rear camera, parking sensors, park pilot. So much assistance it almost takes the thinking out of driving and encourages phone use whilst driving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,131 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I like ACC and the emergency stop when reversing if someone steps in behind. Also same for car breaking unexpectedly in front of you. I don't have lane assist which is what most people seem to give out about .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    lane assist is disconcerting, but again if you use your indicator in situations where you need to cross a lane line, it won’t jerk the steering wheel. It reinforces good habits, and terrific for training a learner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    I find all the little warning inputs on my new car make me focus more on my driving…. But just maybe I’ll start ignoring them as I get used to them 🤔 I hope not. I don’t do phone calls when driving and navigate per voice instructions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    🤣 Some time back a Ford Focus was much admired for its handling. However, having owned one for 8 years the head gasket blew. Not the best made cars. I had an old Škoda Octavia estate, that had punch and built like a tank.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The problem with this automation is that it mostly works but not quite. So when you drive from Blacklion to Belcoo it cannot tell the difference between speed limits in Kmh and mph and if there is speed limit sign missing it hasn't a clue. However, warnings can enhance safety and this technology will become common in regular cars, as a spinoff from the development of automated cars



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,158 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    About not knowing features of one's car, a person was parking their car but the drivers window was left open. The driver had not noticed and was walking away.

    I pointed it out and the driver went to unlock the car, but I said that there is an easier way - just keep the 'lock' button pressed until the window closed. 'Oh, I never knew that!' said the driver.

    Now that was a long time ago. So having features hidden features is not new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,454 ✭✭✭NSAman


    lane keep assist on Kerry roads especially on BMW is a nightmare. I turn it off. It throws you into the ditch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53,071 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Can they spot potholes?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Was passed by a big 241 Volvo XCsomething on the M50 earlier, and the owner clearly had some of the safety features disabled. Tailgated me, overtook and was all over his lane, with his wheels crossing into the hard shoulder a couple of times, and tailgated the driver in front then...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    You're talking old tech there. Mine converts automatically to MPH when appropriate, shows speed limits regardless of signage, and adjusts cruise control to the posted speed regardless of KmH or MPH. It advises the speed limits as appropriate to the jurisdiction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Adjusting automatically is good for sure. However, I think of one place where the local authority imposed a 50Kmh limit for a small hamlet with a school, they erected large signs at either end imposing this limit but did not put 80kmh signs on the reverse for people leaving the restriction (I actually pointed this out and they later erected 80kmh signs). Any observant driver knows that the speed limit changed there, but the car would have you drive at 50kmh for the next 5Km.

    Authorities could provide a digital speed limit database, but reading signs is prone to error.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    The usual loud mouths in the motoring world decry new technology in cars and even moan about the falling sales of manual cars. We don’t start cars with a crank handle anymore so why should be be stuck with the antiquated stick to make the car move?

    For a lot of people driving is a chore to endure and necessary because of how our housing has been built for decades. Anything that keeps them and those around them safer and makes driving easy for them is a good thing.
    ‘But it’s not perfect!’ Neither are drivers.
    The only backwards step is touchscreens for everything. It should be the regulation that heating and other essential controls must be easily activated but a physical button. That way I don’t have to take my eyes off the road, I can move my hand over to start it and adjust it with more cars whe it’s safe to give the dash a quick glance

    This is water. Inspiring speech by David Foster Wallace https://youtu.be/DCbGM4mqEVw?si=GS5uDvegp6Er1EOG



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As a learner myself I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. This tech is great for those like OP who genuinely require them to maintain their independence whilst having peace of mind. But you stick an able bodied, able minded Gen Z'r in one of these off the bat all it's going to do is breed complacency, and complacency kills.

    I had a hard mental barrier when it came to the prospect of getting behind the wheel because my Grandad, having driven for the army for about 20+ years, was a maniac. Never did a single theory or practical test in his civilian life and I had nearly two decades of that "experience" telling me the road was an insane asylum. Once I got over that, driving a manual was the next challenge as being autistic I was worried about having to fettle with a gearbox as such was dead set on only driving automatics, however many friends and family members talked me out of that because the practicality of actually developing my driving skill like it were a profession my life depended on would be the best way way forward. As such I am free to drive whatever it is I can reliably afford to put on the road, well once I am fully licensed, and will have the correct attitude to being the road which is always having my head on a swivel.

    Besides, all those aids won't stop some eejit ramming you with his banger because he thinks he can just bully his way around the road. Not to mention, it's just more stuff that can go wrong and break.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭PaoloGotti


    I absolutely detest lane assist. Prevents me taking the racing line on twisty roads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    I'm not sure I see this as a positive for road safety. It's bling for making the sale, and no substance behind it. Are there any studies that suggest these make you safer, or a better driver?

    For example I've seen a car that has little lights to tell you whether your left or right blindspot is occupied. Perfect, that's useful. But can I rely on it? If I see the light telling me it's clear to my side and I move to the lane only to crash into someone in it will Toyota step forward, pay my premiums? Will Gardai say it's grand the computer failed it's not my fault?

    No! It's 100% my fault. I'm supposed to check my blindspot, myself with my own eyes. That makes sense. So I don't get it, it's extra flashing lights and sounds and limitations on my driving but ultimately Gardai or RSA or the kind people of the boards or the poor sod I crash into will tell me I was not supposed to use them. And they're right. So it's an extra distraction, or a crutch I will be burnt for using. And if I do against all advice rely on it, I will build horrendous habits.

    I think this is technology getting ahead of regulation. I welcome exploring more features that can make our lives better, but I honestly think the manufacturers of these systems need to be held accountable for when they fail. If I crash because the car gave me wrong information to go off on, or the wheel locked because it misread the lining on the road I want to see that investigated and accountable. And we need this done, because next up is self driving and already we're saying yes the car drives itself but it's the driver who needs to be ready to come in and act if anything goes wrong. The manufacturer can take the profit but if anything at all goes wrong it's personal responsibility. We set this up in the most corporate favoring, nightmarish way possible.

    I don't think any of us should be happy to see a system where the drivers are accountable for their cars programming, and it doesn't encourage that programming to be good it's specifically encouraging the opposite.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    all it's going to do is breed complacency, and complacency kills.

    I listened to a podcast once (a Tim Harford one I think) where this was discussed; and it was mentioned that this effect does happen with safety measures, but that the research seems to show that the effectiveness lost through complacency typically removes (very roughly) about 30% of the benefit of the technology.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I just know from personal experience having grown up with the boom of tech in the form of internet access and social media. Never bothered "learning" anything as such because I had whatever I needed at my fingertips. The more we as humans engage with tech the more disconnected we become from our surroundings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,755 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    You'll piss off a lot of "purists" saying that you like ADAS, but personally I have no problem with being reminded of a speed limit or being given a nudge to keep a little further left in my lane. I think it's only right that these are on by default

    When more cars have these systems our roads will be safer.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    I think this is the podcast where they discussed it; the effect where safety measures lead to increased risk taking or complacency is called the peltzmann effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    I hired a BMW 520 at Kerry airport once, had to do that for exploring the lanes!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    I learned to fly single engine aircraft before I learned to drive, back in early 80s. No automation, no GPS, a pen and paper, protractor etc were required to navigate. Nowadays piloting is heavily reliant on tech, especially in the commercial sector, which has improved safety enormously.

    I learned to drive on a manual, an Austin Metro. My Dad had already taught me how to service his big old car, you really had to know about mechanics to cars going back then if you were not to keep breaking down.

    Then Anti-lock braking came in which helped stop you skidding. But you had to re-learn braking, and to continue to apply brake pressure as it would engage and let the system do the work. It takes learning to get used to the new behaviours of cars as they get more sophisticated, but overall they are much safer.

    Regarding car system not knowing the difference between kph and mph, you bet this little issue will soon be fixed by GPs re ignition of location. My dashboard has no physical dials, software lights up the sped etc. as regards physical buttons, yes my new car has them, and the air con buttons are enormous and intuitive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Speedsie
    ¡arriba, arriba! ¡andale, andale!


    I have a beautiful weeping willow at my gate, it's about 50 years old, quite tall and a wide spread. It has been likened to exiting the bat cave when driving through the long, trailing branches.

    BMWs see it as a solid wall, stop and will not progress until I go out & pull the branches to one side.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    First off, fair play. I wouldn't have the spine to leave the ground even with the modern systems that make it way more accessible now compared to back in your day.

    As for tech in cars, I'm not against all of it because I don't view it as being all the same. Antilock breaking is fantastic because in the heat of the moment that is going to make a world of difference in avoiding tragedy. However, when it comes to computer assistance that does the thinking for you like OP is describing, that's where I take issue. What's going to happen when that new learner has to get behind the wheel of a car that doesn't have the latest and greatest? Say they've been shipped off to college and all they can afford is an older model without any of this level of assistance, they're going to have the expectation the car is going to tell them what they need to do and when they need to do it only the reality is by the time they actually get any "feedback" the impact has already happened. What's great for some isn't always necessarily great for all. Great for people like OP, or maybe even yourself, but for new young drivers they should learn the fundamentals properly and develop a good ethos around driving.

    Edit: I just realised you are OP, my apologies.

    It's funny you should bring up requiring mechanical knowhow for older mechanical only vehicles as I am actually considering taking up a mechanics apprenticeship given the massive shortage and I like working with my hands

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Can you turn it off by default though? We got a VW and it's bloody annoying on rural roads, comes on by default every time you start the engine. That's taking it too far.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    It varies by make and model. With my current car it stays off until I decide to turn it on again. With my last car I had to turn it off every time I started the car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,715 ✭✭✭User1998


    I think in all new cars its on by default now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,454 ✭✭✭NSAman


    we recently had the State here redo our roads. The ramp into the office is rather steep and the state decided to pit a different coloured concrete on the road outside the ramp.

    one of my cars sees it as a danger when I reverse and slams the brakes on first time frightened the sh1te out of me. So now I take the other car unless I have large goods needed.

    Have to say cruising with lane assist and auto speed distance control while setting your speed, is so easy especially on highways. The cars look at surroundings and warn you. It also monitors driver condition and tells you when you’re tired. Take a break coffee etc. after a long day it’s very welcome, seeing as we all think we are the worlds best drivers😀



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 BLV


    From 2024 all new cars will have an excessive speed notification system that cannot be turned off, every time when you start the car, it goes back to its default state. While the intent is good, the intelligent sign assist (road sign recognition) currently is not reliable. I have tested cars from multiple vendors and these are common issues:


    When driving on a highway it often reads signs from slip roads. If you are driving on ACC with ISA, it is dangerous as it will suddenly slow your car from 120 kph to 60 kph

    It does not read temporary sign that do not have a red circle

    Some cars ignore temporary signs with a red circle when they are installed too low

    Some cars do not understand the difference between miles and kilometres



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,864 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    How long do manufacturers provide security and operating system updates for ? What happens after this time ?

    Post edited by SuperBowserWorld on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    See if you can change it with VCDS/OBDEleven/similar?

    On my 2012 A7 the Start-Stop functionality is (by default) activated everytime I switch on the engine. Drives me nuts. Can't stand it and was turning it off manually each time using the button on the dash, but using OBDEleven I was able to set it to remember the last setting on power-up (also allows it to be turned off completely as well).

    Sometimes (randonly every few weeks) it seems to reset to default (always on) but pressing the button puts it back into memory mode.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I learned to drive in cars that had windy up windows and didn't even have central locking. I knew in that car when my car steering wheel started to veer to the left or right, that this was because there was either a problem with the car, or the road and I was able to learn how to control a car based on the mechanics and gain an understanding for the limits of grip, how to drive in different road conditions

    These days, modern cars are constantly taking over the controls. If I was 18 again and learning to drive in my mothers fancy new BMW, and the car drove itself, kept it's own lane position, steered for itself around gentle bends, braked for me when I was parking or in danger of a collision, and then I need to get my own car and it has none of those features, It would be like driving a completely different type of vehicle.

    I can see a time when there is a different license category and you can only drive pre 2020 cars if you have passed your test in a car without any of those automatic driving aids enabled. (similar to the manual v auto license)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,799 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I would suggest that anything safety related would need to be done as a product recall like what currently happens all the time when mechanical parts are discovered to be faulty

    If it's part of the infotainment or non safety related and the car can continue to function without an update, you'll just keep the old software for the service life of the vehicle.

    If it's an enthusiasts car, there is the possibility that there could be after market software updates, you could in theory be able to replace the or flash the ECU with a modified version of the software although this would require that the EU takes the 'right to repair' seriously and doesn't allow manufacturers to lock every single component to the original vehicle they were installed on)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭DoctorEdgeWild


    I'm the very opposite, I avoid driver aids at all costs. Although I'm not some luddite who sees them as the Devil's work, they definitely make the world a safer place, and make things easier for those with mobility issues. I just love driving so much that I want to keep it in my control of my brain, not the artificial brain under a bonnet. Luckily for me, my cars are very much a product of the past (with the rust repair bills to prove it)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    I think your opening line is ignoring the extremely well known fact that road fatalities have been steadily falling pretty much every year since the 1960s, where there was far fewer cars on the road. Of course that is down to safer roads, and less drink driving, but also part of a larger road safety strategy which has a major focus on vehicle safety.

    A few naysayers decried the introduction of ABS and ESC for similar reasons to you post, and the one I have quoted below, and sure, neither are necessarily your friend when trying to control a car on black ice, but for 99% of drivers, in 99% of scenarios, they're in your corner, mopping up your slow reaction times, and lack of experience with oversteer on a dark wet night when you're tired on the way home from work.

    Technology will always be fallible, so don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Most of the issues you've listed above are down to lack of training, meaning lack of knowledge, and therefore lack of interest by drivers in general.

    I do understand your point though, there is a human element that can't be ignored, as it too often is, but training upfront, not liability afterward is the important part.

    What have the RSA done to adjust their training in the past 10 years to teach drivers how blind spot monitoring works? Do they (via ADIs) teach people how the EU mandated AEB systems work, and more importantly what they won't do? How to properly drive a car with Active Cruise Control? They're asleep at the wheel, forgive the pun.

    Salespeople are to blame too, they're not interested in actually teaching people how this tech works. My car can honestly almost drive itself on the motorway, but the salesman hadn't a clue.

    IMO, at minimum, you should be forced to watch a lengthy video from the manufacturer once a year, on the car screen, which explains how the ADAS features work.

    But overall, what is really needed is standardisation for all of the above features, driven by the EU, so that I know when I get into a car with "Blind Spot Monitoring", I know that it's going to react in a very similar way in a Mini as in an MG.

    https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r2---statistics/road-deaths-in-ireland-1959/road-deaths-in-ireland-1959-to-2020.pdf?sfvrsn=2f120623_7

    Realistically, arguing against safety systems which are statistically proven to save lives en masse, because someone could drive an older car and get into a collision is a stretch to say the absolute minimum.

    When I get into my mothers car, I do have to take a second to remind myself that I haven't got the same tech as my own car, but that's one small step backward for me, while a hundred thousand newer, ever safer cars will hit the roads this year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    You're hardly going to attribute lower fatalities since 1960s to driver assistance? So why bring it up.

    And you're missing the point, if our own authorities are telling us not to rely on those systems then what lack of training are you referring to? the training is DO NOT RELY ON THAT. I take an issue with that. Either these systems are helping or they're adding unnecessary distractions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    The point of these warnings (Like BLS) is to warn you if your blind spot is occupied by another car. Yes you should always check, but that doesn't invalidate its effectiveness in the case where somebody is in imminent danger of a collision. The advice to not rely on them is simply to stop people using them as the only indication of it being safe to change lanes or pull out into traffic. The training (I assume) is to remind people that having these warnings doesn't mean that they can now stop using their mirrors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,129 ✭✭✭kirving


    "Driver assistance" is an incredibly broad term, and yes, has been in development and roll out since the 60's and before.

    The same arguments were made about vacuum assisted brakes, power steering, ABS and ESC. ie: building bad habits, and "what if" scenarios about a driver not being equipped with the skill or strength to handle a car if they fail.

    It's not a zero sum game, where either you or the car are fully responsible for a collision. Think about where the Blind Spot Monitor lights are? They're on the mirror. You need to already be using the mirror to utilise them, so they're as tiny a distraction as possible.

    The lack of training I mention, even about the concept of such a system is sorely obvious from your post. They are not to be relied upon, in fact you shouldn't even really notice them until they see something that you've missed, at which point they'll provide a warning. If you think that no red light in the mirror means that it's safe to change lanes, then you're totally mistaken.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,063 ✭✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Same here, but surely we are the worst drivers ever (except for our parents who really hadn't a clue) or was it the cars? There were far less cars on the road and the fatality numbers were in their five hundreds per year. I find younger drivers in present time where I'm from in Dublin are much more responsible and mature in comparison the carry on when we learned to drive.

    Post edited by John_Rambo on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wasn't arguing against the safety systems themselves, simply the notion that people starting out should learn with them. Had you actually read my responses in their full context you would have seen I acknowledged that they have their place and that I am grateful that I have the ability to drive cars that aren't literal steel coffins like they were mere decades ago. However, I don't want to have to rely on them where my own abilities can suffice. That's it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Yes, so I'm supposed to check the system - the light, for whether my blindspot is occupied, and then confirm it as usual with my own eyes. Now I would think that observing with my own eyes already is a check. So the way I see it either:

    1. Observation with eyes is not enough, so all cars should be REQUIRED to have assistance systems and our road rules including RSA and driving ed need to require these as part of observation .

    or

    2. Observation with eyes is enough, and these extra systems and lights are an added distraction and an extra lights distracting you from the road.

    Now I'm leaning 2 personally, because I'm careful and my sight is OK so if I checked with my eyes I don't need a gizmo to second guess that. But under either scenario I just don't see how that system logically slots into road safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,128 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Maybe you didn't read this from @kirving above, so rather than retype what he wrote, I'll just copy it here:

    The lack of training I mention, even about the concept of such a system is sorely obvious from your post. They are not to be relied upon, in fact you shouldn't even really notice them until they see something that you've missed, at which point they'll provide a warning. If you think that no red light in the mirror means that it's safe to change lanes, then you're totally mistaken.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,895 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yeah, i would see these as driver aids (or safety nets), not replacements for driver skills or responsibilities.

    my car is much older than mentioned in the OP, so i don't have many of the aids; but i don't need to pay attention to the reversing radar, it beeps and changes tone depending on how close i am to an obstacle. so i can pay full heed to checking around me without having to modify that to also watch a screen.



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