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Tour de France 2024 - this time it’s personal

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Only needs to finish 2 places ahead in a bunch sprint. Should be easy enough to let it go.

    He tried to gap himself on the finish today to not get it (can't say I'll ever fully understand the psychology and tactics of that, but they know more than me!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Fr D Maugire


    Scheldeprijs, KBK, that's what you call really scraping the barrel. By the way Froome also has a Non-Yellow competition jersey from each GT as well. KOM from Tour, Giro, points from Vuelta.

    It really boils down to Cav, his World Title, Milan-San Remo, and his GT sprints wins versus Froome, 4 Tours, Giro and Vuelta plus GT podiums. Winning the biggest bike and most important race in the World 4 times should make it a foregone conclusion, but apparently not.

    For the record, the Tour has a co-efficent rating system for Tour stages to decide time-cuts with a rating of 1-6 on toughness, with 1 being the easiest and 6 the toughest. Naturally enough, the flat stages are rated 1 with hard mountain stages/TTs rated 5/6. Froome has 7 Tour stages and they are all TTs/Mountain stages. When you apply the co-efficent values, Froome has a higher score than Cavendish. Says it all really, one competes for the meaningless stages that serve no real purpose other than to get the race from A to B, and the other is racing/competing when **** gets real with the endgoal of winning "the" most prestigious prize. A bit like comparing the Champions league and Europa league.



  • Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Well, you hardly expect Froome to win sprints, or Cav to win on Alpe DHuez... it's a bit disingenuous to say KBK, Scheldeprijs and Tour sprints are scraping barrels, or meaningless. About as meaningless as comparing cyclists to soccer players. Are you watching the Euros Dougal?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Yet people wouldn't have a hope in one of those flat stages and would be eviscerated on he track by Cavendish (a talented multi disciplinary rider)



  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Reality_Check1


    there’s a lot of extra commitments that come with the yellow jersey such as extra interviews and media commitment etc. This early in a Grand Tour it’s not worth the hassle. If you’re effectively on the same time and your competition has all the extra commitments let them have it



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  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭Reality_Check1


    and comparing Cav and Froome is like comparing apples and oranges - both absolutely world class and both the best to have ever done it but you can’t compare the 2 imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Fr D Maugire


    The great riders win the great races, Scheldeprijs and KBK are at best second rate races that might serve as a tie-breaker between riders with similar palmares, but are not going to feature too highly on an all-time great palmares. Froome has 3 Dauphine and 2 Romandie so like I said, they off-set anyways.

    Other that avoiding crashes, flat stages are pretty meaningless in the overall picture of the Tour. That's hardly news. Why does the Tour itself rate them as easy? The flat stages have always been a sideshow to enable riders to recover, have off days etc. Thats it. Very few if any of the all-time greats are reliant on winning flat stages at the Tour to achieve greatness.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Theyre meaningless in the gc. But they're not meaningless for points jersey. I guess we shouldn't consider that prestigious so



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    So I get that, but what I don't completely understand is people commenting about UAE won't want it as now they have to control the peleton and defend the jersey etc. Just seems to be more based on convention or something rather than anything else.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    People really go way out of the way to devise wats if undermining Cavendishs palmares because they don't like him . I dint like him but it's astonisg ignorance at best



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    ah here. I was ready to let it go

    what do you mean by “the best to have ever done it”

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    i think that thought was on his mind as he neared the finish line, he didnt try and keep remco away and was happy at the back of the 5/6 riders that finished at the same time.

    He threw the first punch at jonas and it was a good idea to test him early in the tour to see how his fitness actually is. Good to see jonas is up for it because it looks like outside of pog and jonas the others wont challenge for GC and if jonas wasnt able to respond today it could be tour practically over.


    The battles ahead between them are going to be fascinating



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I dislike him. But admire what he’s done. We’ve had this discussion. I just object to the “best ever sprinter” or “best British cyclist ever” tags.

    Great sprinter. Unbelievable rider. But neither of the above.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,578 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    If it suits Pog will give it away again. He won't be too pushed chasing down a breakaway on stage 4.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Hes probably in conversation for both though. Sprinting changes every few years. It was different in the 80s, 90s , 00s.

    There's a. Argument to be made for Chris hoy a d a few of the other trackies too



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    He’s in the conversation for best British rider.

    The change in sprinting is what made him successful. He’s immense at finishing for a great lead out. In a chaotic 90s sprint I wonder how he’d do.

    Apples and bowling balls though. In the words of Phil Leotardo.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Well the ,90s lads were all massive drug cheats so they're not remotely in the conversation



  • Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Fr D Maugire


    Well there is more to the green jersey than winning sprint stages, otherwise Cavendish would have won more than 2. Right?

    How childish are you exactly? People are not allowed to objectively evaluate a rider on their achievements and put some context to them. You seem to address very little of what I say, but sure do a lot of whining about it.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,304 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Because there not much to evaluate. Youve tried to dismiss a vet successful cycling career as one of second rate and easy wins. That's plainly nonsense. This was all done last year too and roundly rebuked too

    If youre going to by the tour coefficients you may as well go by uci points and froome is a good distance behind



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’d really like to know what Pogacar thought when he saw Remco. He looked devastated.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    is cav vs froome the cycling version of ROG vs sexton?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,578 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ide say he thought "fuk Vingo" because at that stage he was urging him to take a turn.

    Remco won't get away with that in the real mountains though so I don't think Pog should worry too much.

    Pog needs to learn to play games too because when he goes he goes and Vingo knows this and will rightly wheel suck him.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    absolutely not. It’s an entirely new debate, I never thought I’d have.

    It’s Cav v sprinters and Froome v Hinault etc.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I was a bit shocked at Remco’s appearance today. He’s lost a lot of weight. He looks like a mountain goat.

    I’m excited for the days ahead.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers



    POG needs to be carefull as well and pick his moments, hes already got a grand tour in his legs, and a dose of covid and that could be telling over the next couple of weeks. You would expect a similar tactic tuesday, yates to go full out at some stage about halfway or 3/4 way up the Galibier and pog to attack with 1 or 2 km to the top to see if he can get a gap.

    Hes got a big day coming up Tuesday and Friday but he should be in a team bubble the rest of the week to conserve as much as possible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,645 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    it’s mostly just an unwritten rule of the peloton that the team holding the yellow jersey are the ones that have to control the breaks and defend the jersey, but we’ve seen before that Pog isn’t necessarily happy to let the jersey go to a breakaway rider early on and prefers to just try and keep the jersey for the entire tour



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    he has also been happy to let someone else wear it and deal with the media commitment's that go with it



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