Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

Or more dumping when people cancel recycling collections

What will happen with these prices rises is that people will just throw everything into the general waste bin. I noticed in my house more recyclable rubbish going in the general bin because we are now separating cans and bottles from the other waste. You need to have your own recycling centre in your house to sort through general, food, recyclable and plastic/cans rubbish. Before this it was easy to just throw all the cans, plastic and packaging in the green bin now with this rises not a chance.

The one thing that annoys me about this return scheme is the fact that you are tied to the shop were you bring the cans and bottles back too. For me it when you get the voucher from the machine it should be possible to use in any shop why have it tied to that retailer? Was this something the retailers wanted in the agreement for housing the machines?

That Irish Independent article leads with the waste management business threatening rate increases to householders.

But I think increasing your bill by a few Euros a month is not their goal. Read that article closely and right to the end - What they really want is to be able to reclaim the deposit on items through their waste stream.

The waste management business know just as well as Re-turn do that a significant proportion, I would say 25-30% of items sold with deposit, make their way into household, workplace, event and other collected recycle bins. Volumes like that will amount to something like 9-10m items a week, worth €2m in deposit value (€100m p.a.). Far more than the €15m a year they say they will lose in the article.

That €100m in potentially tax free income is the prize here - they want to be allowed reclaim these deposits. I actually see that as a very acceptable, very fair request from them and I have previously asked on here why Re-turn are not enabling collectors from the start.

Re-turn usually don't care who returns an item (pick it from a bin if you want), as long as they can verify its an item that is part of their scheme. The one big exception to this is when the entity trying to return an item is a collection business. It seems if you are a waste collector they don't want to know you.

Ignoring waste collectors lowers re-turns collection stats (although they are being allowed hide that for the first 12-18 months), it needlessly increases landfill, needlessly increases incineration and we continue to export of in-scope and separated items to far flung mixed recycling facilities while we dream of building a local plant.

For whatever reason, Re-turn just don't want to make it happen. I suspect they probably prefer the mountain-of-unclaimed-cash problem they currently have than bothering their ass to figure out how to work with waste collectors.

And sure - if they don't bother their ass, be that no skin off their nose: its consumers - or rather the consumers who are responsible enough to pay for recycling - who will, after all, make up the difference in their recycling fees at home.

I was about to post this. It was inevitable. Our government trying to have our pockets thoroughly cleansed.

Nope, privatisation is a total red herring.

Kerbside collection was far more efficient, and the collection agents (whether private or public) were funding that through the values of the recyclables.

Instead the recyclables are now funding collections of just those items, from a limited number of retailers.

The kerbside collections still have to happen for all the other waste. So there's a funding shortfall that has to be made up, whether that's higher taxes for those run publicly, or higher charges for consumers in a private system.

This is down to Re-turn and Re-turn only. This is the sort of thing that happens when you create a completely inefficient quasi quango, jobs for the boys, that has to be funded.

This 1 million percent

Government back over backwards here with the scheme to retailers, so many sops, huge exemption versus other EU countries, the deposit having to be spent or reclaimed in that store…

And the retailers aren't even bothering to keep the machines running.

Meanwhile the waste collection companies still have to collect the waste, still have to go along every street, for general waste, compost waste and the remaining recyclables… and the government washes their hands of it.

I suppose they just want money at the end of the day.

I'm not sure that collecting the deposit will be a good long term plan if DRS reaches it's target.

The customer side problems of the scheme still exist which prevent / strongly discourage reclaiming deposits.

The refuse companies may reclaim some lost revenue and perhaps dont raise the cost of green bins but the customer still loses the deposit. We're still funding the shortfall that has now appeared for the bin companies.

Not as bad as bin costs going up but if this is a "win" here Im at a loss with this scheme. Just looks like greasing the palms of the bin companies with our deposits to keep them happy also. Another stakeholder at the deposit trough.

It is a total red herring.

If our bins were included in LPT, and €15 million euros worth of income was taken out of the kerbside refuse collection, how exactly would that shortfall be made up? Increase in LPT? More taxes? Well?

It has nothing to do with privatisation. It is robbing Peter (kerbside refuse collectors) to pay Paul (Re-turn) to the tune of €15 million. It doesn't matter whether those kerbside collectors are private or public. It is a chunk of money that had been funding kerbside collection is gone, and is now funding an operation that has a totally different scope.

The point is that we have had utterly disingenuous attempts on this thread to misrepresent the situation, pretending that Re-turn would have no impact on kerbside operating costs. That has now been shown to be a complete falsehood.

Gubbermint will be telling up they couldn’t predict unintended consequences, wasn’t in scope of their planning, and well worth it anyway

I am completely against this scheme, but accept that it exists.

I'm coming at this from a point of principle: Re-turn should not be allowed to ignore parties with large volumes of deposited items. It's not Re-turns money to withhold from the waste companies. They are enabling bulk items collected in the name charities for the feel good vibes / positive PR / corporate virtue broadcast, but they are choosing to ignore waste operators.

Like everything with the Green Party, we always just end up paying more money in the end.

no way the staff are throwing away free money into the bin?

Depends what they're getting paid and how much work they've to get done in what time allowed. It's all very well for egghead to say that the minions will be incentivised to pick up the trash but if it's hassle and you just have to get a job done and are being paid for it, just shovel the stuff up as quick as possible.