How useful is the battery warranty, really?

Your position was there's no fleet of older EVs to test battery longevity on, I countered that there is a fleet of EVs around since 2011 (or earlier) which can be used

I didn't suggest that cars which have been scrapped should be ignored, in fact I would say that data is extremely valuable

Given that car manufacturers went from a 5 year warranty or battery rental model to an 8 year warranty roughly around when a lot of EVs were turning 5 that would imply they have some degree of confidence

I'm not suggesting that we as consumers have reliable data on battery longevity, but manufacturers should have that data available and the warranty they're offering now should be a strong indicator of what they're expecting

However, if you want to start up a public battery monitoring project then I'd be happy to participate 😄

Seems like they may have changed their warranty recently. What I posted above is current, but I've seen older posts on various forums that state that the warranty was just for degradation and not failure. So older Leafs may fall into the latter category.

Pretty much all EV manufacturers cover failure primarily. Degradation only if it falls below a certain level within a timeframe (usually 8 years).

I feel like there's some context we're missing from the story

One poster earlier said they got a faulty cell replaced without any issues, now we've another story of the exact opposite

Not pointing the finger at the old lady with the Leaf, I've often felt there were several garages which seem to avoid warranty work

So I'm wondering was the repair refused without even going to Nissan Ireland?

Or was there some other context we're missing?

I agree there needs to be further clarification from manufacturers about what exactly is covered by the battery warranty. For example are faults covered or degradation only? What level of degradation is covered, and what are the exception? Does a lot of fast charging invalidate the warranty for example?

As a general remark on warranties, we could really benefit from some consumer laws requiring warranty information to be presented in an easy to read table instead of the usual small print.

Something similar to the IPID document that insurers were forced to produce for their policies to allow them to be compared

A simple table of what events are covered up to what limits and the exceptions would help a lot of people

Of course manufacturers would fight it tooth and nail because they like being able to wriggle out of warranty claims as much as possible

Renault = Nissan.

What would be ideal is a range of standard swappable batteries that would suit various vehicles and a mechanical means to change them. You pull into a garage when charge is low, line up, have it lifted out, replaced with a fully charged and off you go. That would solve two issues in one.

Oh man the battery swapping again....

But wouldn't it resolve two considerable issues the public have 1) range anxiety and 2) battery degradation/ faults. And of course rapidly speed up charging on the road.

That's why we have engineers and designers - to solve issues like this.

Of course it could/ would make EV cost of motoring higher. Maybe on a par with petrol/ diesel and of course there could be a battery charge/ exchange tax to replace lost excise taxes on fuels.

But sure aren't we all about saving the planet?

Sorry, I just can't take this seriously. I'm giggling here about the notion that because we standardised an already existing cable we should standardise EV batteries and sprout up ramp equipped stations all over the country to lift the cars up so the battery can be removed and replaced.

Picturing the passengers being hoisted into the air as various robots unbolt their battery and replace it. Nothing could possibly go wrong. Kudos. As I said, I'll wait. 🤣

This reminds me of people at work who don't listen. Sometimes you have let people discover fire is hot and burns the hard way.

It's technically possible alright. But it's completely and utterly bonkers. 🤣

This is the case for every form of lithium ion battery in existance.

Phones, watches, power tools, hoovers. All based on lithium ion which breaks and degrades. No manufacturer wants to know about how the battery performs in real time. Its always used as a means to get you to buy another product. Same as with cars.

Battery leasing solves any warrantee anxiety (if it exists), swap stations not needed at all. Battery leasing was done here but isn't anymore. Battery swap stations are being done in China.

As for USB cable standardisation. Europe has Type 2 / CCS port already standardised. Years ago.

As crazy as it seems, NIO already doing it in under 3 minutes they say. Think I'll stick with me wallbox

https://hbr.org/2024/05/how-one-chinese-ev-company-made-battery-swapping-work

Okay, that's pretty much all bollocks

First off, drugs are tested extensively before they're released to market, including long term testing to monitor for side effects. They are probably the most heavily regulated products out there in terms of quality and oversight

Back to batteries, you seem to be under the impression that the engineers and scientists working on them are just randomly trying different things to try and improve battery life

This is not be case, new technologies are improvements upon existing ones. By building upon what's already known then you can be confident in the results

In addition, these newer batteries, like most products, are tested under very harsh conditions. Charging power, heat, humidity will all be dialled to the edge of operating conditions and the batteries are cycled hundreds or thousands of times until they're exhausted

This kind of testing is what allows manufacturers to be confident about the quality of their products

However, there's always variability in manufacturing and there will always be quality escapes. Cells will get into cars that will fail after a few months, or will degrade much faster than expected

That's what a good warranty should be there to cover

We need batteries to come down in size and for cars to have a port where the battery can be plugged in. We also need to be able to charge the spare battery when it's not in the car.

“Because they can”- ok I take your point - and no I’m not saying ICE cars didn’t have known faults - I have a friend who had a 5 series that seemingly had all sorts wrong with it as known issues so I know all about long and multiple stays in BMW garages 😀

I just think they’re shooting themselves in the foot here- if EV sales are down which they are in Ireland, why not take the chance to reassure people ? People still have concerns about EVs - some legitimate some misinformed .

Anyway, this won’t bode well for people looking to sell 3 year old + Leafs -garages will obviously low ball trader-inners even more now with this “excuse”

No one's going to trust any that after how they are treating that woman.

What this case will do is decimate sales of used Leafs and the fall in values will effect the new cars values.

Car manufacturers do this kind of dodging all the time. Then wonder why sales fall..