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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

How useful is the battery warranty, really?

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1356

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    #62
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,257 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327391#Comment_122327391

    Careful, the Japanese government arrested Carlos Ghosn for saying that 😜

    Also for the tax dodges, but the whole trying to get Renault to buy out Nissan was probably the final straw

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #63
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326375#Comment_122326375

    What would be ideal is a range of standard swappable batteries that would suit various vehicles and a mechanical means to change them. You pull into a garage when charge is low, line up, have it lifted out, replaced with a fully charged and off you go. That would solve two issues in one.



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    #64
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327433#Comment_122327433

    that was illustrated in possibly Fifth Gear or some other motoring programme a few years ago - obviously the logistics of that idea don’t stack up and then you’re into the whole battery leasing thing and of course loaded charges for battery charging making the running costs far higher



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    #65
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,979 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Oh man the battery swapping again....



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    #66
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122326934#Comment_122326934

    My position is that battery tech is changing and along with this, manufacturers are offering longer warranties. But as far as the public is concerned these changing technologies aren't around long enough for them to be actually provable in real life time. It's a question of can you trust the marketeers??

    It's the same with new drugs and so on, here's something we've developed and tested and that will fix you up for 10 years. But where people have only been taking it for the past few months in the real world.



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    #67
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327449#Comment_122327449

    But wouldn't it resolve two considerable issues the public have 1) range anxiety and 2) battery degradation/ faults. And of course rapidly speed up charging on the road.



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    #68
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327433#Comment_122327433

    Highly impractical. EV batteries are very heavy, are bolted in with dozens of bolts and standardisation would mean being built to the lowest common denominator (smallest car) regardless of the size of the vehicle.

    And that's before you consider the size and complexity of these swap stations and where you could put them.

    Chargers seem far more simple in comparison.



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    #69
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327459#Comment_122327459

    That's why we have engineers and designers - to solve issues like this.



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    #70
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327462#Comment_122327462

    Only if the people who pay them want to do it. I'll wait for that.



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    #71
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327447#Comment_122327447

    Of course it could/ would make EV cost of motoring higher. Maybe on a par with petrol/ diesel and of course there could be a battery charge/ exchange tax to replace lost excise taxes on fuels.

    But sure aren't we all about saving the planet?



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    #72
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327481#Comment_122327481

    Maybe they'll be ordered to do it by the EU etc. Took a while to get to standardised USB charging for small electronics. So just possible, this will be anticipated before the market gets much bigger and manufacturers are told to get their acts in order. The EU can be bloody annoying but in situations like this, can be for the greater good.



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    #73
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327501#Comment_122327501

    Sorry, I just can't take this seriously. I'm giggling here about the notion that because we standardised an already existing cable we should standardise EV batteries and sprout up ramp equipped stations all over the country to lift the cars up so the battery can be removed and replaced.

    Picturing the passengers being hoisted into the air as various robots unbolt their battery and replace it. Nothing could possibly go wrong. Kudos. As I said, I'll wait. 🤣



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    #74
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,979 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327457#Comment_122327457

    I think should consider why you think people with no experience of EVs know better than people with experience.

    Titanic full speed ahead ....



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    #75
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,979 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327501#Comment_122327501

    This reminds me of people at work who don't listen. Sometimes you have let people discover fire is hot and burns the hard way.



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    #76
    Flinty997
    Registered Users Posts: 11,979 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327529#Comment_122327529

    Its technically possible. That's not the issue. Its just not viable financially.



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    #77
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327562#Comment_122327562

    It's technically possible alright. But it's completely and utterly bonkers. 🤣



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    #78
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327457#Comment_122327457

    No, it wouldn’t.
    The space requirements for jacking cars, storing batteries. Keeping the charged ones separate to the empty ones.

    Most people only need a 10-15m dash and charge to cross this small country in a modern BEV. Charging your existing battery with make more sense.



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    #79
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,885 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    This is the case for every form of lithium ion battery in existance.

    Phones, watches, power tools, hoovers. All based on lithium ion which breaks and degrades. No manufacturer wants to know about how the battery performs in real time. Its always used as a means to get you to buy another product. Same as with cars.



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    #80
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users Posts: 7,553 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327631#Comment_122327631

    So why would they bother investing money in new models when you have to buy a new one anyway?



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    #81
    crl84
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭crl84


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327462#Comment_122327462

    The engineers have already solved it. It's a case of plugging your car into an abundantly available source of fuel - electricity.

    Sure why don't we just make petrol tank swap stations too, where you stick a car on a ramp, take apart half the car, take out the empty fuel tank, and put in a full tank of petrol, and then put the car back together and on you go?

    Moronic.



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    #82
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327562#Comment_122327562

    Where there's a will, there's a way. As for the costs, who ever said that motoring is/ was/ will be cheap? The idea that EV motoring is somehow cheap and sure you can charge your vehicle from solar panels on your roof is fine & dandy for some. But will never have broad application.

    Think of all the benefits accruing to the motorist, forecourts and revenue with a range of standardised swappable, likely smaller batteries with less range. And of course to the green agenda with more reuse of vehicles and so on. And of course, neatly address the subject of this thread, the warranty problem.

    But hey - I'm just the common man, looking at the thing in the round.



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    #83
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    UPDATE ON NOSSAN BATTERY ISSUE DISCUSSED ON LIVELINE.

    FROM FB

    Update on Nissan Leaf Battery Warranty Post

    Dear all – I can’t seem to find the earlier thread that I shared regarding the RTE Liveline program on the battery warranty for the Nissan Leaf. I did promise I would come back after discussing and following up with Nissan Ireland directly. As follows:

    Nissan Ireland were very quick and responsive in coming back to me first thing this morning. They advised that that the new Nissan LEAF is provided with the new and improved comprehensive battery warranty introduced by the manufacturers in February 2022, which extends coverage for dedicated EV components “including defective battery cells and battery modules”.

    What I learned from the call I had with Nissan Ireland is that the earlier Nissan Leaf battery warranty changed to a more comprehensive warranty from Feb 2022 onwards, owed to a number of improvements in the battery and BMS, where defective and/or faulty cells and modules now have full and comprehensive warranty coverage for the full 8 years/160,000KMs.

    Prior to 2022 a different warranty applied which seemed to address only capacity loss (9 out of 12 bars).

    It would seem that any Nissan Leaf owner from 2022 onwards are in a good place, in terms of the full and comprehensive battery and cell+module warranty that we would hope to expect from the pedigree of a well-established Japanese player such as Nissan. I would have sympathy for those with Nissan Leafs prior to 2022 and those considering purchasing models prior to 2022 might like to factor in this risk.......

    That said, Nissan Ireland did say to me that it’s not and never has been their intention to see Nissan customers in Ireland left in a difficult position, and they want customers who run in to difficulties to contact them directly for help. They also mentioned that faults/problems are very rare in Nissan Leafs (in fairness the stats are very much on their side on this point). They shared that they want/need to handle each case on a customer by customer basis and that they want/need understand the circumstances that led to potential problems as these can be wide ranging and different, explaining that there are indeed occasions of abuse, neglect etc etc, which seems fair and reasonable.

    The gent that I talked to seemed very professional and genuine. They also mentioned that they are working with the manufacturer to help Teresa Cassidy (the lady on Liveline) get to a better place.

    It seems that Nissan Ireland Customer Service phones have been hopping since the Liveline program. I think my earlier post might also have generated a fair degree of traffic in to Nissan Ireland as well, but they indicated that they are keen to help/support any customer in difficulty as a priority.

    I have somewhat changed my own sentiment since the earlier post (but only for for Nissan Leaf models from 2022 onwards). Having owned 2 x Nissan Almeras, 2 x Nissan Primeras and 2 x Nissan Maximas over the years I can say they have all been fault free and bullet proof, and I never once had problems in warranties when needed. I have been assured from Nissan Ireland that from Feb 2022 all Nissan Leafs have a full and comprehensive battery warranty that includes cell and or module defects/faults of any kind. Personally, I would be quite reluctant exploring models prior to 2022 as the position would seem ambiguous here

    Hope this helps clarify things a little more for everyone. Again, sympathies to those with Nissan Leafs prior to 2022. I appreciate there is indeed a degree of ambiguity here……



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    #84
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327715#Comment_122327715

    Moronic or not - you know exactly what the comparison is.

    Pull in and fill yer tank. Pick up yer coffee and pay in shop. Off you go.

    versus

    Pull in and swap out a battery for a fully charged unit. Pick up yer coffee and pay in shop. Off you go.



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    #85
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Battery leasing solves any warrantee anxiety (if it exists), swap stations not needed at all. Battery leasing was done here but isn't anymore. Battery swap stations are being done in China.

    As for USB cable standardisation. Europe has Type 2 / CCS port already standardised. Years ago.



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    #86
    crl84
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭crl84


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327741#Comment_122327741

    Yes, and it's moronic because as already pointed out to you, batteries cannot be easily or quickly swapped out.

    The fuel tank comparison is far more comparable and apt. And highlights how stupid it is.



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    #87
    Cuauhtemoc
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Cuauhtemoc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327268#Comment_122327268

    That's a nice warranty limitation. If the battery works then odds are probably negligible that it'll degrade that much over the 160000km limit. If the battery fails some other way. Tough luck.



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    #88
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327741#Comment_122327741

    You think a battery swap and all the associated messing about will be that quick?

    Undertrays etc, plastic panels, aerodynamics….



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    #89
    grumpygit
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭grumpygit


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327817#Comment_122327817

    As crazy as it seems, NIO already doing it in under 3 minutes they say. Think I'll stick with me wallbox

    https://hbr.org/2024/05/how-one-chinese-ev-company-made-battery-swapping-work



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    #90
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122328029#Comment_122328029

    I can completely see how a manufacturer can have manufacturer dedicated swap centres. But a one for all battery to cater for every EV. I don’t think so.



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    #91
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 11,257 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122327453#Comment_122327453

    Okay, that's pretty much all bollocks

    First off, drugs are tested extensively before they're released to market, including long term testing to monitor for side effects. They are probably the most heavily regulated products out there in terms of quality and oversight

    Back to batteries, you seem to be under the impression that the engineers and scientists working on them are just randomly trying different things to try and improve battery life

    This is not be case, new technologies are improvements upon existing ones. By building upon what's already known then you can be confident in the results

    In addition, these newer batteries, like most products, are tested under very harsh conditions. Charging power, heat, humidity will all be dialled to the edge of operating conditions and the batteries are cycled hundreds or thousands of times until they're exhausted

    This kind of testing is what allows manufacturers to be confident about the quality of their products

    However, there's always variability in manufacturing and there will always be quality escapes. Cells will get into cars that will fail after a few months, or will degrade much faster than expected

    That's what a good warranty should be there to cover

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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