Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

perhaps that’s some of the productivity/flexibility EI wants to discuss, the ability of non-EI pilots to fly EI aircraft or making EI pilots available for these unproductive aircraft to be deployed in other IAG operations during the down time. It’s all speculation.

That’s a good idea, fly them three quarters empty for the winter and burn plenty of fuel.

So flights are still in danger after 8 hours of talks ?

Christ electing a pope wouldn't take so long

Yes, saw an interview with the IALPA president. He said exactly that - not only were Aer Lingus not willing to budge, they brought new demands. Hard to know how this will pan out now. Will the court take a dim view of the seeming unwillingness of EI management to negotiate in good faith? I think the more likely outcome is a recommendation that will see both parties get something, but if IALPA stick to their principle of not buying an inflationary pay rise, then we could be heading for an escalation of strike action. How long will we have to wait for the labour court recommendation?

Decent amount of free time in the winter for A330 pilots. Short haul pilots are on a 5-3 split so the winter is almost as busy as summer for them.

The current WTR is being managed well as they can cut some of the multiple flights per day to the likes of LHR. I don't know what generally the load factor is for the likes of LHR, but flying it occasionally i would say it is in the region of 90, 95%, so EI MGMT can manage these by cutting 10/15% of the daily flights they run more than one flight per day.

Anyway, conjecture, let's see how it plays out.

You'll have a better idea tomorrow, but my feeling is that neither side ar any closer to settling this. I expect more dramtic actions over the coming 2 weeks and then who knows after that.

But don't take anything i said above as any kind of first hand knowledge,. Just my opinion

I would suggest that if the pilots adopted that tactic, that we would be into lockout situation.

Shut the company down till a deal was done or the company fold up tent.

Well I'll put it to you this way Dubya, I cannot see numerous one day strikes being tolerated by EI.

The one 8hour strike was well 'posted'n advance.. running one day strikes ,I feel, would be a different animal.

Anyway, maybe both sides will come to their senses soon.

From what I've seen to date, it looks like IALPA is the side that has not been negotiating in good faith. There's no negotiation from them, it's a demand of 'pay us the 24% or nothing'. That's why they haven't wanted to use any industrial relations tools again until recently as they have no intention of budging on that. They can't be seen publically to not engage again given this is dragging on, so they are back in labour court. Tighe has said many times they won't budge on their demand.

EI mgmt. have said all along that they would negotiate but there has to be a compromise. I think the best negotiations happen when both sides are willing to give something to get something. It seems to me that the quickest path to a resolution (given no budge on pay demand from IALPA) would be a negotiation around the productivity improvements EI mgmt are looking for, as I'm sure there's room for changes there.

Indeed it does, a case of oneupmanship.

There will be a compromise, there always is. But there will be a serious lack of trust and goodwill between both sides for a long time to come

Public opinion counts for SFA in the grand scheme of things

Sorry, you've got that completely wrong.

Ialpa, in direct discussions last week, indicated to Aer lingus that they would be willing to settle for a lower percentage. They restated this yesterday in the labour court.

Aer lingus, on both occasions, stated they were not willing to move from their position unless work practice changes were on the table. In fact, yesterday, Aer Lingus introduced new demands that neither the union nor the labour court had heard before.

So the union has shown willingness to move from it's position, Aer lingus has not and has in fact dug deeper into it's position.

Wouldn't say you are 100% right in that pronouncement, Dubya.

Maybe/Maybe not. Will all this stop me from flying EI again? or even giving it a second thought? Not a hope. In fact, i'm hoping after all this settles down there is a massive sale and i'll get stuck in.

I won't be the only one.

When this is all over it will be back to normal pretty quickly I would suggest.

Not a hope B. This is more deeply engrained and been going on the last few years, not last few months.

Lets not forget (and assuming it's the same as mine and other union represented professions) that strike days are unpaid. Start counting up strike days in quick succession and pay packets get hit hard, esp staff who may have large outgoings.

Have to disagree. It's the pilot's stance of no negotiation on work practices that comes as across as intransigence. Work practices could mean anything. As little change as possible for the pilots, and total (but unachievable) flexibility for management. I cringed every time I heard them say - it's making the pilots fund their own pay rise. How are they going to be able to back down from that hardline stance? Hopefully the LC make it easy for them and they get down to do what they should be doing - ie. negotiating all the details.

It funny as I'm the opposite. I'd normally side with the workers but in this instance, I find it hard to side with private-sector workers who are demanding a pay increase pegged to inflation and also because the company made more profits - all the while having the ability to cause massive disruption to everyone else.

I do think the pilots deserve a pay increase and should have gotten one every year but, given the high salaries most are on, demanding it's pegged to inflation is a bit too far for me - what about as inflation falls, will they give some of the percentage back?

Also, if I want to benefit from a company making more profits - I'll buy shares in that company. Do EI staff get any opportunity to buy shares at a discount as part of a sharesave scheme? If not, that could be one way to offer employees an opportunity to share in the times when the company is performing well. Also, I know some private companies will provide larger bonuses or pay increases in a year that the company performed well and that it's usually tied to performance reviews.

Overall I think everyone wants the people flying their plane to be content and well paid, I just think IALPA's approach to this and how they articulated things have not helped from a public sympathy perspective.