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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works ongoing; 2025 start; 2028 completion]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The Carr’s Hill interchange as initially proposed was a dog’s breakfast. It was completely re-designed in 2016 to its current dumbbell form which offers much greater connectivity. The two way Maryborough Hill to Carr’s Hill link road, which will run from Maryborough Hill to the Carr’s Hill west roundabout, and which was first introduced as part of this redesign, offers a far more useful connection. It will provide a vehicular connection between the Old Carrigaline Road and Maryborough Hill.

    For active travel users, phase four of the Ballybrack Valley Pedestrian and Cycle scheme will link Maryborough Hill to the Old Carrigaline Road and onwards to the existing phases of the Ballybrack Valley Pedestrian and Cycle route.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    Was the Maryborough Hill connection entirely removed pre-2016?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    That’s not right. The initial design proposed include a link through Maryborough Ridge to access Maryborough Hill.

    This was removed due to resident complaints and replaced by a link road to run down the side of Douglas Golf Club to access Maryborough Hill which is a horrible solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Read my post. What's not right. I never said that there wasn't a link through Maryborough Ridge. There was.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    How was it initially a dog’s breakfast? The initial design was the same as now, except that the Marlborough Ridge link was removed and replaced by the current one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The initial design couldn't have been more different. Rather than the dumbbell that emerged from the 2016 redesign, the original plan for that junction was a single roundabout linking the M28 with Carr's Hill.

    From my notes at the time:

    At the time Maryborough Ridge link was proposed, the location and configuration of the Carr's Hill interchange was very different. In fact it wasn't an interchange at all, it was a roundabout with five roads exiting/entering. One of these was the Maryborough Ridge road which would have been the main access to the M28 for all points from the east end of Passage West to the RPH with traffic routed via Coach Hill, Clarkes Hill and Maryborough Hill. (Note that the Maryborough Hill link road wasn't part of the plan at that stage, it didn't appear until after the interchange was redesigned). The Carr's Hill roundabout would almost certainly have been a complete disaster. There was no way it could have coped with the volume of traffic, especially given that it was planned to close the Mount Oval off ramp and divert all that traffic to this roundabout as well. I remember talking to one of the engineer's in Maryborough Hotel in November 2015 at the initial public consultation and suggesting to him that they name the roundabout wisely as it would probably get top billing on AA Roadwatch from the day it opened to the day 10 or 15 years later when it was rebuilt as a proper interchange at enormous expense. He laughed and said that he couldn't disagree. Fortunately it was completely redesigned, still a bit quirky but a lot better.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Personally, I think switching the slip into Mount Oval to be an exit route through the valley and linking with Maryborough Hill flyover might have been better. That would then have linked Mount Oval to the Carrs Hill junction. But not sure how the traffic would have been?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    Adding to the post in the Dunkettle thread, standard of merging at Bloomfield is so bad. This morning, there were 4/5 cars holding up the merging lanes by staying in the right hand lane trying to merge across the solid white line to get onto the N40 main lane as fast as they can. If they actually followed the rules and stayed in the left merge lane, then used the full length of the merge lane, their lives would be so much easier and traffic would flow a lot smoother



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Update from Dronehawk showing progress on the enabling works.

    Ballyhemiken/Rafeen quarry incorrectly referred to as Coolmore quarry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Mr.CoolGuy


    I can't get my head around why they have not incorporated a greenway as part of the works between North Carrigaline and douglas. The corridor is there. Surely it should have been done in conjunction.

    This focus on having all future active travel connections between Carrigaline and the city go via Monkstown and Passage just shows they're not serious about them from a commuting perspective. They still just see these things as a recreation thing for young families to pass time on a Sunday.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I would hazard a guess that this scheme has been in the system and in legal limbo for so long that it was designed etc before all of those requirements came in. Now its a case of just build it, don't touch the plans.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Yes indeed. Same as with the N5 and N22 schemes recently completed.

    TII/Cork Councils will likely propose active transport interventions on the N28 corridor in the next few years as they already have on the N5 through Roscommon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭Mr.CoolGuy


    I understand why it would not have been considered at the outset of the project, but there seemingly being no discussion at all around it at this time is a bit worrying, unless I missed anything. They could and should be getting a lot of the boring stuff through the design and planning phase now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    The councils have gone to ground on lee to sea. They seem to be focusing on fighting local Carrigaline and Rochestown Road pressure groups against active travel measures first.

    I kind of understand why they wouldn't tie the Lee to Sea into the M28, which was already fighting its own local pressure groups. The Lee to Sea route is effectively being heavily fought by NIMBYs.

    They've also committed to the active travel upgrade of the legacy Carrs Hill road, within the scope of this project. Albeit loosely and without specific detail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    It was actually part of the Steering Group's case that the M28 Planning Application was submitted quite literally on the eve of Directive 2014/52/EU coming into force in Irish law and that this was a deliberate attempt by the NRA and CCC to avoid the more onerous requirements of that Directive by allowing it to be considered under the previous Directive 2011/92/EU. And that ABP should have picked up on this and judged it against the newer Directive. The High Court disagreed.

    Crazy to think that almost 10 years have elapsed and the road corridor is still predominantly grass.

    That said, it's actually a pity that Active Travel wasn't incorporated into this project. It would have been very easy to do. Leaving aside the Lee to Sea which is not really relevant, Active Travel could easily have been incorporated from Rochestown to Shannonpark to Rafeen to Shanbally and on to Ringaskiddy along the line of the existing N28 with some additions, workarounds and deviations, with a number of possible routes for a spur or spurs to Carrigaline. The M28 construction phase would be the ideal time to put in any underpasses, over bridges, safe and attractive segregation etc. And in this case, the length of the route and profile of its usage would have made it an exemplary case for Active Travel. Hopefully it will be retrofitted in due course, but it's certainly a missed opportunity.

    Post edited by Hibernicis on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,651 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The irony of course, is that had the steering group not objected and caused delays. The project wouldn't have been as effected by inflation costs and there would be more money in the public purse to spend on a seperate active travel scheme.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    That, together with the fact that the sum total of their efforts amounted to zilch. Not one single solitary change to the plans. Nothing, except a substantial increase in costs, a delay of at least three years, thousands of hours lost by commuters and thousands continuing to risk their lives daily on a thoroughly sub standard road.

    No wonder they removed all traces of their failed efforts and their miserable selves by shutting down their web presence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    You're right on both this post and the last one. They were looking to simply kill the project rather than improve it unfortunately.

    Luckily I have seen direct responses from the County Council about their intentions for the old road. They're still not sure whether it'll be a quiet route or segregated route. Hopefully the latter.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    New road signage at the junction of Carrigaline Road and Church Road in Douglas refers to the road as the M28. All other new signs say N28



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    https://x.com/CoffeyGroup/status/1750609919953322180

    Some pictures from early this year from Coffee Group's twitter showing M28 prelim work



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    I wonder when the Maryborough Hill, Mount Oval and Rochestown on/off ramps will be closed. Given how close they are to eachother, I wonder if they’ll stagger it or can they



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Tender out for the final 1.5km of single carriageway (protected) from Barnhely to the Port.

    https://www.etenders.gov.ie/epps/cft/prepareViewCfTWS.do?resourceId=3658168

    Est value is 22m euro. Significant earthworks are involved in this section.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Good news.

    Did anybody find out the actual reason/s why this was separated out from the main M28 contract ?

    The Service area isn't mentioned in the description, is this going to form a third contract ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    They may want to get that section open first to allow the planned public realm scheme for Ringaskiddy to go ahead sooner rather than later;

    Presumably as the service area is on the Port of Cork lands, it is probably for them to build. They probably want it that way too, I'm sure it'll be lucrative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,961 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    More "active travel" nonsense. I've been down to Ringaskiddy a lot over the years. There's nothing in it besides the port, playground, café, and a rather dingy pub.

    I'm sure they'll add acres of housing estates alright when the motorway is done but that won't makes things better - quite the opposite.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭cantalach


    So when the adults in these acres of housing estates want to get to the café, or the kids want to get to the playground, you prefer that they drive or get driven rather than any of this active travel nonsense?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    I wonder if construction would have started faster if they had done a two part application. An M28 from Carr’s Hill Interchange south to Ringaskiddy, and then a N28 upgrade from Carr’s Hill Interchange north to the N40. That would also have helped remove the “we don’t want a motorway running through our neighbourhood” crowd since it wouldn’t be a motorway, it would be a road upgrade. And also the Raffeen objections wouldn’t have delayed the N28 north upgrade



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,059 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    There is plenty of public spaces, parklands and also a beach down there.
    Its ripe for active travel, given there are plans for a bike lane/greenway all the way to Cork via Crosshaven and Douglas via Ballybrack.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Has full construction finally started on this scheme now?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Nope and it won't for some time. Two separate construction contracts:

    M28 Motorway Section from Rochestown to Ringaskiddy - Preliminary/Enabling works underway. Invitation for tender for construction has not been issued yet unfortunately. Time is running out for the stated 2024 start.

    N28 Protected Road Section of the M28 from Barnahely to Ringaskiddy (1.5km Single Carriageway). Invitation to tender for construction issued on 30th May 2024, closing date for receipt of tenders and due date for opening of tenders is 19th July 2024.

    A prior information notice covering both of the above was issued in June 2023.

    A €16m contract for Technical Advisors for the above was awarded to Jacobs Engineering in November 2023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    DDifficult to understand why they went ahead and cleared the route - and chopped down so many trees etc - when the work won't start for a couple of years and the landscaping won't be done, to fix it, for probably 6 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭DylanQuestion


    And a lot of the trees are starting to grow back



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The preliminary/enabling works that are taking place at present are significant and go well beyond other contracts where this phase often involves no more than fencing the route. In addition to chopping down trees, there is substantial amount of work involved in diverting utilities, site and access road work etc. There has also been an extensive Archeological survey. These works were specifically pulled forward so that the main contractor can "hit the ground running" when the construction contract is awarded.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 398 ✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Fair enough. However, some of the route looks like a bomb went off and it seems unreasonable to not have timed it to be done just in time for the next stage. Mount Oval/Broadale/Maryborough Hill in particular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭cjpm


    This was done in an attempt to make some progress on the project despite the transport ministers best efforts to halt it.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭cjpm


    I have phrased it incorrectly…..

    He doesn’t have the powers to stop projects so he slows them to a snails pace instead. At various stages his signature was required to move to the next. He delayed that as much as possible. There are newspaper articles on it if you want to google it.


    How many months ago did the final permission come through for the N28? And a 2025 start is mooted.

    Yet we know that the Adare bypass will have a Sept 2027 completion date. It’s amazing what can be achieved when JP puts a bit of pressure on Eamonn


    I am pro road construction however I’d laugh if some pricks took the Adare bypass to judicial review just to shove the governments nose in it. (if it’s not too late - I’m not following that scheme’s progress)

    Post edited by cjpm on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The Limerick to Foynes road had three judicial reviews instigated against it but all three were settled out of court.

    They wouldn't have put the construction contract out to tender if there was still a chance of planning being quashed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭cjpm


    Settled out of court….. aka Paid off to drop the case??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I'm not sure you're right in your thinking here, I've never seen any sign of the N28 being delayed by the minister? I know he got his oar into plenty projects but never saw anything about this one.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This project has been in no way delayed by Eamon Ryan. It was delayed due to the judicial reviews, but since then it has hit green lights along the way. TII have been clear from day 1 that there was at best a 3 year advance works programme due to some of the complexities associated with this project (utility diversions etc). It has progressed as planned since mid 2021.

    Eamon Ryan’s delays only seem to affect projects earlier in the project cycle. Projects post planning have been immune to the stonewalling (M21, M28 and N5 along with the smaller bypass projects)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭cantalach


    The advance works also appear to include building most or all of the embankment within the quarry, and miscellaneous earthworks elsewhere too as a sort of side effect of the utilities diversion. Seems to have been a very big contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    It is indeed large. The 2023 TII allocation for the M28 was €19m and the 2024 allocation is €17.6m. While this includes a number of elements over and above the prelims, a substantial amount of it is to cover those – I remember a total figure of €30m being mentioned in relation to the prelims.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    "Prelims" doesn't mean preliminary works. Prelims are costs incurred but which don't form part of the finished project (things like site offices, insurances, traffic management, etc.). Not sure about these big road projects but a general rule of thumb was prelims would be about 10% of the project cost (usually higher now). If this project is going to cost €300m, a rough estimate of prelims could be €30m.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I've said it before about this kind of project with large pre-construction scope.

    To us, no it hasn't started as in construction tenders have not been awarded. To the non-boards.ie, non road nerd, then yes work has started as the preliminary contracts involve clearing, digging, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭blindsider


    …from the Dunkettle newsletter email last of the 12th July.

    Slow-ish progress overall, but at least it's progress. It will be great to see construction in full swing, although I do appreciate that a lot of prep work is being done quietly.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Great news, thanks @marno21

    Have you heard anything on the grapevine about the progress of the tender for the protected road scheme ? I seem to remember that the closing date was sometime around now.

    Post edited by Hibernicis on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Time to change thread title to 2025 start?



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