Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

I think there is a state subsidy for apartment building at present. It was put in place last year after finance dried up for apartment building from pension funds.

Just to put the price of these houses in context. At present in Limerick it woukd have been( considered the 4 dearest city in Ireland for housing) new developments in Patrickwell ( it not Adare) and Coonagh are both at around 500k.

The ERSI think we will only need about 35k units per year to 2050 a substantial difference compared to the predictions of 50-80k by some analysts.

On someone buying and selling at a profit after the retention period yes it may happen but it will be limited numbers. Seldom do houses remake there first day value in the short term due to mortgages rate differences, HTB subsidies, professional costs related to purchasing etc.

As well these housing estate could be considered only a step above social housing. Many will have shared equity attached to them where the buyers have only a joint income of sub 100k

Remember

"Never let the perfect get in the way of the good"

As far as I can tell, and they haven't published the market values yet like Fingal Coco did, but the upper limit of 475,000 reflects the minimum discount to maket value which is 5%.

Dublin city council would have to offer to take a minimum of 15% as equity for the applicants with the lowest income that are eligible, so the 18-22% they referred to as their discount offering is for the minimum price set for each house type.

Your logic at the end is still fine just with the exception that DCC only have 5% equity of the home.

Its a pity that the ceiling for apartments in Limerick was not increased from 450k so the the council could avail of it for the 630k they are paying for social and affordable apartments in the new development on the Ennis Road.

The reason the ceiling for apartments is not increasing is there is absolutely 0 demand for apartments priced at 450k or anywhere near that price in Limerick from people that are paying the majority of the price from there own pocket. Proof if ever it was needed that these schemes have moved on from propping up the property market to taking it to ever more unsustainable levels

I think you are thinking about social housing, no affordable and even if you are your point is a pretty nasty punching down viewpoint.

As we have been discussing affordable housing now constitutes couples that are on a combined salary of €106k. At what salary level do your neighbours need to be on to be acceptable to you?

Summer 2024 - inflation largely under control, energy prices falling, interest rates have peaked, record employment levels, wages increasing quickly (now surpassing price growth since COVID), tech stock indexes breaking new record highs, corporation tax take surging to new highs, FF/FG likely remaining another 5 years

Only yesterday we were informed of another costly unnecessary government scheme will result in an increase in our refuse bill. The 80% previously compliant have to pay for the 20% that were not

Energy provision a severe constraint on future growth

Employment in the tech sector is at 2016 levels in the US

Tech indexes are being propped up by a reducing magnificent "5" with insider selling rife in these companies

Inflation easing and wages rising is not a sustainable condition

EU under significant threats if breakup externally and internally with a Donald Trump presidency most likely to add to that pressure later.

Yeah I think that’s a fair comment and wouldn’t economically disagree. The overall scheme is 40% cost rental, 40% social, 20% ‘affordable housing’. I guess the 20% affordable housing is designed to have a more diverse estate and give some sense of long term ‘equity’ for some people in the estate. Theres also the social element of people feeling more like they ‘belong’ when they own vs cost rental. 20% seems an ok balance of that vs long term state assets to me.

Either way, I’m happy to see that cohort of households in the €40-€100k bracket get a good break for a change.

The person who has no choice and needs a suitable place to live. However, I agree with your sentiment.

is that household income stat not disposable income (I.e. after tax etc) rather than salary?

So when adjusted your 20% becomes something like 80%

CSO stats which show that the figures relate to disposable income and are identical to the figures you quoted in original post.

the median earnings for Dublin was 46,136 in 2022 According to cso

So that would be 92k (46k x 2). Allow for the fact that we have seen wage inflation and 100k as the median income for a couple working doesn’t seem that crazy or way off the mark as you claim which yet again shows that the figures in your original post to be questionable at best seeing as I highlighted that they relate to disposable income. As for your follow on post you do realise we have a highly progressive tax system….don’t think anymore needs to be said on that and how it impacts disposable income.

Source :

we have a highly progressive tax system….

Edit Correction (post relates to the redistributive nature of taxation, rather than progressiveness)

I'd love to see a forensic independent analysis of this statement as it constantly rammed down our throats by the media.

The department of housing budget is approaching if not exceeding 8 billion. The nations wealth is predominantly held in housing/property so is it the wealthy or the less well off that are the beneficiaries of this spend. Every measure introduced by the housing minister has resulted in an increase in property values thereby benefitting the wealth owners of the state.

We are on slightly below median income for our area, as a couple, according to timing belts post, however I am aware of several colleagues who earn more than us who are recepients of medical cards plus associated benefits simply because of their outgoings on accommodation costs. Is this a benefit to the less well off or a further hidden subsidy to bloated property owners

carbon tax is highly regressive paid predominantly by the poor with the proceeds going to the well off in housing renovation grants, new electric cars etc. Vat is very high and impacts those who live pay cheque to pay cheque most on a percentage basis. Half the working population have no pension and of the ones that do the tax benefits favour higher incomes

Is "progressive tax system" the same as €630,000 2 bed apartments "affordable housing" in Limerick? Discuss

And don't start me on the lack of services especially basic health services. So many of the poorer countries have better services than us.

Some people live in a bubble here.