Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

that’s one way of looking at it. The earlier Labour Court recommendation was for a 9%+ interim settlement and the independent pilot pay tribunal recommended 12.25%. EI said it would pay the 12.25% and was willing to consider more with changes in Ts&Cs. The pilots said 25% or nothing. From a negotiation perspective, IALPA has undermined its position by unilaterally offering a reduction as it is not principles-based such that it undermines the position it has taken before now. Forsa had accepted the 12.25% or thereabouts for the cabin crew, they’ll look stupid if they support the pilots getting 25%. All in all, it’s hard to see this going anywhere without some level of work practice changes - it’s the only way to get to “yes” for all parties. The pilots can get closer to their demand, IAG can say they got something want and Forsa can say that the additional money is for the work practice changes.

A simple split it down the middle and nothing else deal won’t be suitable for anyone.

As someone who is due to fly in a couple of weeks I'd disagree totally with you around the impact the pilots actions have had. While there's only been an 8 hour strike, the work to rule has seen numerous flights cancelled daily - See here for info: https://www.aerlingus.com/support/disrupted-flights/ialpa-industrial-action/#/tab-0-options-for-customers-with-cancelled-flights

That disruption, which is very real for those that were due to take those flights, as well as the ongoing uncertainty about the continuance of the action have led to reduced bookings and general reputational damage (which will ease with time)

As for what "side" I am on, probably the pilots, despite their actions causing plenty concern in my sphere. The very fact that the WTR has caused the cancellation of as many flights as it has, would say to me that the airline have been reliant on "goodwill" to achieve its' significant profits over the past couple of years and the complete double standards of senior management inhancing their income over the past two years to the level it has gotten to is yet again another statistic as to why the gap between the low paid and the highest paid continues to increase (I appreciate the pilots aren't low paid).

Realistically, what do you envisage BALPA and SEPLA doing, beyond expressing support at a general level?

Very pugnacious post if I may say so.

You get these comments regularly and one would have to say did the pilots on holidays not know

a. that there was a serious dispute in the offing

b. who the regs regarding tickets were in these situations.

Those of the pilot workforce going on holidays on 'concession' tickets should have been aware of problems arising.

A little bit of restraint in these posts would be great, common sense and a lowering of the rhetoric dial is the answer.

A little movement from both sides is needed, a little give from the pilots on minor 'productivity' a little give from management on the 12.5% ..cuts out the relativity issues and counter claims from other unions.

Settle down a bit lads….

For clarity I was referring to the previous poster and the hit on the pockets of the pilots.

No doubt plenty of flights have been cancelled and disruption caused to the flying public.

A full 24 hour strike or longer would really mess things up and take a very long time to sort out and cost millions.

So, a key meeting with regards this current situation will take place today

I'll take the positive view that this will be the beginning of the end. Although that's not to say that there will not be further disruption in the coming weeks, i'd hope that there will be a general consensus of agreement between both sides after recommendations are made.

Cancelled Flight lists updated as far as July 10th:

https://www.aerlingus.com/support/disrupted-flights/ialpa-industrial-action/#/tab-0-options-for-customers-with-cancelled-flights

is the Labour Court decision binding on both sides? Or if not what happens next

I dis-agree, i recall BA on strike and it was very prominent in the UK Media, also the time of the year it is, it's more relevant to a lot more people, than say early January strike

All that matters is

1. do they strike a deal
2. do they recommend it to the members (especially if the WRC impose something)
3. do the members accept it in a ballot

otherwise its groundhog day

Am just wondering, similiar happened me today. Flight for next week cancelled and we've been moved to a flight about 12 hours later in the day. In this instance is it still possible to claim compensation I wonder?

I agree with your point about calling him names – but suggesting that his actions necessitate respect because of his position is a slippery slope. Do you respect Donald Trump, given that he was democratically elected to be US President?

Mark Tighe has experience in this. He was also IALPA President during the strike and subsequent lockout of 2022.

He is almost 34 years with Aer Lingus, according to his Linkedin page.

Leaving aside your "sitting on this" language, the latest "Irish Times report states:

"…Both sides said the court would issue a recommendation aimed at brokering industrial peace at the airline “within a few days” following a hearing that lasted more than 3½ hours on Wednesday afternoon.

Capt Mark Tighe, Ialpa president, confirmed afterwards that the union would ballot its members in Aer Lingus on any Labour Court recommendation."

And that proves what exactly…?
A work to rule is designed to cause disruption,otherwise what’s the point.

I thought aer lingus pilots flying hours per annum were lower than other airlines?

There’s an egregious amount of clueless opinion being passed off as knowledgeable statements in this thread. It boggles the mind that people apparently can’t be bothered having the basic due diligence to read the pages of useful info contained in previous posts before engaging their fingers. Hopefully some of the below helps…

Correct. But this WTR was designed to highlight in the public domain how under-resourced the airline is. As has been said before, the pilots are available to work their rosters as published and are also fully available on standby to cover roster changes. What they are now not available to do is work on their rostered days off or work duties that incur a significant delay beyond what was originally rostered - that’s what standby pilots are for but alas, EI doesn’t have enough of those.

At no stage has IALPA ever played the ‘poor’ card. Just because a worker is perceived to be earning a high salary doesn’t bar that worker from exercising their industrial right to ask for more - in line with inflation and the company’s profitability. Any argument otherwise is in bad faith. Also, ‘overtime pay’ in EI isn’t what you might think it is. In fact, conversely with other airlines, the payment for ‘overtime’ isn’t considered worth the hassle for pilots in EI and their free time is valued a hell of a lot more. With the right incentives in any job, staff are perfectly happy to provide ample flexibility. Those incentives don’t exist in EI.

Good effort but the reality is significantly worse. There’ll be many pilots who will work 3 to 4 flex rosters in a 12-month period. That’s up to a third of their year where they won’t be able to depend on a 5 On/3 Off pattern in order to plan future commitments/appointments/childcare/holidays etc. if FR can crew their operation with a permanent 5/4 pattern then EI should be able to easily manage the same with a permanent 5/3 pattern without disrupting it with flex. They need flex because they use it as a 5/2 crutch to extract increased productivity out of their insufficient pilot numbers. Flex was never intended to be abused this way.

As has also been previously explained, EI’s op as a mixed-fleet carrier can only be compared with other operators who roster a mix of short and long haul. Regardless, there’s no work condition or agreement limiting the number of hours EI can roster their pilots - they can roster them right up to legal FTLs if they like. Pilots can only work the rosters they’re given! If their productivity is apparently down then you should only be asking why their rostering is so inefficient. Perhaps it has something to do with the inordinate amount of time EI’s pilots spend on the road between DUB/ORK/SNN - none of which attracts any sort of duty pay. Or maybe it’s got more to do with the colossal amount of hire-ins used last year which took thousands of payable flight hours away from EI’s pilots.

How much an employee gets paid doesn’t undermine their ‘right to disconnect’ and no employer has any business contacting an employee outside of a period where they are required to be contactable. Pilots are rostered standby duties and are supposedly contactable only within these periods. Unfortunately, the reality in EI is somewhat different with the company regularly disturbing rest periods with calls, texts and emails - often in breach of WCs. The more senior pilots will push-back against this and stand their ground but junior pilots often don’t have the same confidence to do so.

___

The airline industry and its work practices have very few parallels to the rest of the working world which goes a long way towards explaining why the general public has, understandably, such a hard time wrapping their head around it. This is why EI management’s disinformation campaign has been so apparently effective when you hear and read people making assertions on various topics that bear no resemblance to the reality of being an aviation employee. It’s a notably unhealthy and unsociable career with a relatively limited longevity (these descriptors not being unique to aviation, of course). I have now thankfully left scheduled passenger ops behind and no amount of money could pay me to go back to it.

edit - spelling and detail.