Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

Yep. 15-18% and work practice changes is probably where a settlement ends up

I think most everyone would be hoping for something along these lines but there’s certainly zero appetite among EI’s pilot body for more WC changes. Management achieved significant and long-lasting structural changes to pay and conditions during Covid. The pay demand is seeking the reversal of those changes - any pay deal that includes more WC changes won’t even be put to the pilots for a vote.

I’d like to think the LC will take a very dim view of management refusing to move from their position and now, at the 11th hour, demanding more structural changes over and above their last presentation to the LC.

Stories coming out now of pilot families away on holidays having their return tickets cancelled by management, threatening legal letters being sent to people, rosters being marked with ‘Failed to show’ (or something to that effect!) when the WTR prohibits a pilot from operating a particular duty (‘Failed to show’ (?) is a formal disciplinary term and can lead to dismissal), pilots being abandoned in the US and told to either operate a flight home (and therefore breach their WTR) or ‘stay there indefinitely’…

Management have gone rogue. It’s a union bust. Plain and simple. A union bust won’t be tolerated by the other unions in the group. Things could get interesting if BALPA and SEPLA fire up their industrial processes.

No major issue with family tickets being cancelled. Pretty standard during industrial action and passengers should have priority for limited capacity available.

I'd say its costing them millions as things stand.

As a matter of interest, for those people here that have had a cancelled flight, were AL able to get you another flight in and around the same time or was a refund the only option? (I see they have three refundish options on their site however a refund wont suit me unfortuantely)

My DUB-JFK flight was cancelled for this Saturday. It was cancelled last Friday, but after here nothing other than that I called them Saturday. I was then informed I should have receieved another email (which I hadnt) to explaing that we had been moved onto a Deltas flight which leaves an hour earlier. So all good in the end. Just not sure what happens about seat reservations at this point.

A bit like RTE last summer, anything EI-related will be given media prominence at the moment. In normal times it would be deemed fairly unremarkable.

The CEO is judged on share performance. I work for a US based listed company. The payments to executives on the board and the value of shares they sell would make your eyes water but we are all told to tighten the belt and brace for more cuts.

I would see that story as nothing more than a hit back at the very generous pension payments for DB scheme to pilots that was reported which I am still unsure if that's part of the quoted yearly pay.

Only if both sides agree to a binding arbitration before hand.

However its very likely whatever comes out will still need to be balloted on by the pilots.

That's not how the Court generally works. Usually, it can be a couple of weeks or more before recommendations are issued, but no doubt they will be striving to issue their recommendation/s in this case a good deal faster. That being said (based on my experience of these processes), today is about hearing formal submssions from the parties, possibly asking some questions about factual issues and then considering the issues in the round. The Court will presumably be trying to craft conclusions that they believe represent a fair outcome for both parties in what it is a complex and at times bitter dispute. There won't be an outright "winner" and anyone who believes that the outcome should represent victory for one side or the other is likely to be disappointed.

[Childish insult deleted]

"Before entering the Labour Court on Wednesday Captain Mark Tighe, president of Ialpa, said if the Labour Court was unable to provide a recommendation, “which protects employees, us, in this particular, situation from the degradations of inflation, then we will simply have to stand our ground against our employer and hope that people understand that this is not just about us.”

Hopefully for his colleagues' sake, common sense will eventually break through, although it may take a few more trips to the local food bank before it does.

Genuine question. What compensation and the basis for it? It never occurred to me in that scenario there would be compo available...

The basis for it, I suppose, is that I may have made plans around an early morning flight (bus tickets, perhaps accomodation etc) and hadn't allowed for leavning a full 12 hours later, which also means a number of hours less at the destination, later arrival time (certain public transport options not being available) and generally more hassle than there had been with the earlier flight.

The last part of the extraordinary circumstances, I believe is outside of the airlines control (third parties) but it's not clear.

Any people who have been in a similiar position can provide any advice?

This is from here: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/air-travel/compensation-for-overbooked-and-delayed-flights/

Cancelled flights

Where your flight is cancelled, you are entitled to a choice of:

• Refund the cost of your ticket within 7 days or
• Re-routing to your final destination at the earliest opportunity or
• Re-routing at a later date at your convenience, subject to the availability of seats

You may also be entitled to compensation.

When compensation is not payable

You are not entitled to compensation if:

• You have received at least 2 weeks’ notice of the cancellation; or
• You have received between 2 weeks and 7 days’ notice but you have been offered an alternative flight departing no more than 2 hours before your original departure time and arriving at your final destination less than 4 hours after your original scheduled time of arrival; or
• You have received less than 7 days’ notice but you have been offered an alternative flight departing no more than 1 hour before your original departure time and arriving at your final destination less than 2 hours after your original scheduled time of arrival.

If the airline can prove that the cancellation was caused by an extraordinary circumstance which could not have been avoided, even if all reasonable measures had been taken, no compensation is payable.

Examples of extraordinary circumstances may include:

• Weather conditions
• Air traffic control restrictions
• Security risks and
• Industrial disputes that affect the operation of the flight

EU ruled that internal industrial action is not an extraordinary circumstances.