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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭ginger22


    And the diesel van is still the only viable option despite the crazy taxes levied on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    This was in the FT a day or two ago. Underlying issue is the market for EVs has stagnated and it amounts to them having to make cars that people do not want to buy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The self employed man can use a diesel, the only ones who care about this nonsense is the people who don’t understand electric

    I don’t care who buys what fuel

    The Uk market is second biggest in Europe for car sales, making statements that car manufacturers will stop making cars for it is ridiculous

    You don’t like electric car, so, buy a combustion car

    The uk car manufacturing industry is dying a long time ago and has nothing to do with Electric cars



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Interesting read

    https://fortune.com/2024/06/25/stellantis-threatens-to-kill-uk-production-sales-targets-way-too-high/

    Stellantis NV will quit making vehicles in the UK unless the government eases electric-vehicle sales targets, just months after retooling one of its British plants to make only battery-powered vans.

    Yes they re-tooled the plant and are now threatening to leave… Sounds logical alright…



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Seems they have a habit of throwing out threats to boost it's profits.

    With an election coming up Im sure plenty of other companies will do similar, the UK goverment won't want mass unemployment threats from companies

    It’s not the first time Stellantis has threatened to leave the UK. Last year, the company warned it would shut factories unless potential tariffs on its electric vans exported to the European Union were renegotiated. A deal between the EU and UK was ultimately struck before the deadline.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Indeed, I was being sarcastic with with my "sounds logical alright" comment

    What kind of company invests in a factory only to stop using it a short time later?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Lots do that. Invest using taxpayers money usually via grants/tax breaks and then up sticks and leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,743 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0630/1457335-dublin-traffic-plan/

    It comes as the Minister of State with responsibility for Business, Employment and Retail Emer Higgins said she will ask Dublin City Council to pause the plan that is due to come into effect in August because of concerns about the impact it could have on jobs and retail sales in the city.

    Ms Higgins is to ask Dublin City Council to postpone the plan until at least 2025.

    The Green plan is being delayed. Must be because their popularity is in sharp decline after the election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    We are there to set up policy decisions, that’s what we are there for. It’s up to the city council.“They have voted twice, they had a very detailed consultation process, I think we should go ahead.” source


    Eamon Ryan on the way out, nothing to lose, therefore will not change, he defers to the council. Higgins is FG TD from a West Dublin constituency, likely trying to buy time in advance of the next election, it will become her constituents problem.

    I have noticed along corridors where only public transport is allowed there are dead zones in the city with no business activity, commercial activity tends cluster around the stops where there is sufficient foot fall.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Italy’s Meloni denounces ‘ideological madness’ of EU ban on gas and diesel cars

    The Rassemblement National and environmentalism are incompatible (LeMonde)

    There is another aspect to consider. The EU has too much power, the pursuit of green policies has become a major fault line as nationalist politicians like Meloni come up against the reality that Brussels has more power than Rome has, deviating from the EUs climate change tramlines is not allowed. The climate alarmists and their backers constant fear mongering has backfired, it is more fuel to the fire to the discontent felt by those who do not trust the establishment (remember yellow vests) and want change.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Reminder of the big picture globally.

    Chinas emissions have tripled in the last 15 years. They now account for more CO2 emissions than the US, EU, UK and Japan COMBINED.

    China now emits 500 times more CO2 than Ireland. With a growth rate of 10%, that means China essentially creates 50 more Ireland's every year from an emissions perspective.

    And i haven't even touched on other large fast growing third world emitters like India, Indonesia and Nigeria.

    Bear this in mind the next time some report comes out saying we in little Ireland "must" do this or that or else there will be global catastrophe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    How much manufacturing is in China? how much of this is supplying the rest of the World?

    How much manufacturing is in Ireland?

    You might think this is a good argument but in reality it isn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    The manufacturing moved from Europe to China. It didn't disappear. So emission reductions in Europe are a nonsense unless global emissions reduce. All we have done is hollowed out our industrial base and China has eaten our lunch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If they decided to offset the CO2 from China to the countries that they are manufacturing for how do you think Ireland would end up then?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    How would it end up for for Irish people? We will need to speak Mandarin, so we can haggle to make a few quid shining their shoes.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    If you want to base it on consumption then we can have that conversation - but reminder 90% of Irish agri produce is consumed abroad so our emissions would collapse under your preferrred metric! And most Ryanair flights occur outside Irish airspace so no more sticking the emissions in under our numbers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I am making the point, which you seems to not understand, that China CO2 is high because they are the manufacturing capital of the World.

    Clean up our own mess before you start pointing fingers at other countries.
    I doubt you will care and continue to point at China, it's the same whataboutery for years when anything about climate change comes up or CO2

    You might be interested but Ireland has a higher Co2 per captia compared to China. Who fault is that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If you think we need to speak mandarin, then good for you, go with that



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Your logic of Brussels has more power than Rome equates to a body governing 448m people having more power than 60m people kinda makes sense.

    Of course what you fail to realise is that Italy is a member state of the EU. Meaning decisions made by the EU government in Brussels are agreed upon by the Italian government in Rome

    With regards to the EU ban on petrol and diesel cars. It is happening and it's happening in more than just the EU so you might as well get used to it. The UK, Chile, Canada, Japan, some US states all have plans. In fact even China have plans to do it by 2035, although I'd take what they say with a rather large pinch of salt. Norway plan to get ahead of us all and intend to do it from next year, Ethiopia did it this year so it's quite possible



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Shouldn't take any CO2 emission figures from the US as serious. They don't report any emissions from Defense and it is estimated to be as much as 180 countries combined emissions.

    (estimated from the US military's 2017 fuel bill)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I am making the point, which you seems to not understand, that China
    CO2 is high because they are the manufacturing capital of the World.

    Clean up our own mess before you start pointing fingers at other countries.

    That logic doesn't make sense. Suppose we did our own manufacturing…

    We've converted the west side of the island to rewilded meadow, closed to tourism, where newly introduced wolves keep down the bison population lest a bovine fart spoil the zero emissions tranquillity.

    The east side of the island is an industrial hellhole belching out coal fumes and toxic waste. It's also increasing at a rate much faster than our delicate rewetted peat bogs can absorb.

    Where would you focus your emissions reduction efforts? Would you say, "emissions are high in the east because it's the manufacturing capital of the island; you westerners should clean up your own mess before you start pointing fingers".

    At the end of the day it doesn't matter who you blame. CO2 molecules don't keep a tally of where they came from. Emissions are not going down until the biggest emitters emit less. If you agree that manufacturing gets a dispensation because it supplies the rest of the world, then you agree that we are not headed for net zero anytime soon and that efforts like Ireland's are tokenistic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If we did out own manufacturing out CO2 level would increase massively

    So patting ourselves on the back and pointing at China as terrible doesn't really wash

    Ireland already has high levels of CO2, so as I said, clean up our own mess before pointing at others



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,511 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Ah the auld per capita thingy. Luckily, that's a gap that's closing as Chinas population falls and ours grows



  • Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭InAtFullBack


    Everything this government and specifically the greens touch turns into an absolute hames. The consumer was happy to pay a rate subsidised by the money made from our recyclables. But, oh no - the greens rubbed their collective two brain cells together and the resulting brain fart was the DRS.

    Not only did this peeve off the consumer who was happy with the simple enough task of popping their cans and bottles into the recycle bin - but now with that revenue stream gone, your recycle bin is going to cost more going forward.

    This assures me that the DRS was nothing more than a money grab for the well connected. If it were potato peels that were profitable then they'd conjure up a scheme for those to be collected for their well connected pals.

    Take a bow greens, yet more expense to be heaped onto Irish families who are already reeling from all of your punitive taxes. It's high time that these punitive taxes were abolished, they're not achieving anything - has the temperature cooled by any measurable amount in the last ~2 decades? No, these taxes are a failure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,559 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    There's problems with the waste system in Ireland, no question about that. But the DRS is the same scheme that is in play successfully in many European countries. To that effect, its proven.

    It seems that the Greens are ready made whipping boys for so many people who don't look at the bigger or wider picture. Same goes when it comes to transport and infrastructure. There's a delay to planned infrastructure changes in Dublin city center because apparently the owners of multistory car parks have put pressure on officials because they know less cars is less revenue for their operations. Less cars in congested spaces is a win for everyone involved but instead of grasping the nettle and committing to that, too often we end up trying to keep everyone happy and again the Greens get kicked because what they said would be the outcome, didn't come about.

    Anyway, I'm sure there's probably a better location on this site for this link, but I'm also sure many here will be interested in this for various reasons. And also that it might help someone to know that the next time a Green is talking about climate change, they're doing so on the back of detailed scientific data.

    https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0702/1457663-ireland-extreme-heatwaves-high-temperatures-research/



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The reduction in waste for city centres etc say the system is working

    The way people go on you would swear the system required a degree in physics to use. Put the bottles in a machine and you get the money back, how f**king difficult is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2024/0702/1457649-extreme-heat/

    Maynooth boffins announce today that Ireland is now more likely than ever to suffer heatwaves.

    I wonder do these academics or George Lee for that matter ever think about the circumstances they release these reports in? Do they look out the window like? Or even walk outside? About 12C here this morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    At my local lidl the other day about half of my holiday collection was rejected by the machine, eventually got most of them in after about 10 minutes but with the frustration about 10% of them wound up in the waste bin. Because if I can't have my money back nobody can. I think the common denominator in the rejected cans was that the barcodes were printed smaller than the others so the machine couldn't read it.

    I contacted re-turn and they said it's Lidl's problem, not theirs. I contacted lidl and they said sorry but nothing they could do.

    I think, in general, nobody disagrees with the idea of the re-turn scheme but likewise I don't think anybody would argue against the implementation being absolutely auful. And what minister is responsible for it's implementation? Environment would be my first guess…

    Long story short, stick to bottled beer



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Not true.

    Look at Dawson Street and the whole Grafton Street area which has seen a revival since Luas City Centre.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,675 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    All such plans take six months to iron out the wrinkles. We are actually ahead of schedule compared to other plans introduced elsewhere.

    Get used to it, it is the new norm.



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