Brian Dowling and Arthur Gourounlian expecting first baby.

No, I don't. You'll have to enlighten yourself. And seeing as you pretend to not know, I think we're done here.

You know what you object to but are unable to say why, which means your objections are baseless, and thetes no point continuing.

Except all the research indicates that there's no real difference between the quality of upbringing. No parents are gonna behave in the exact same way when given a situation.

I posted a meta analysis on the previous page but here's another.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-023-02019-9

Firstly: Any two people bring "different things" by virtue of the fact they are individuals. Why does gender matter therefore? What "different things" are specific to being a man or a woman that A) they bring and B) is relevant or important to child rearing? Secondly if bringing "different things" is meant to be important then why do we magically stop at 1 man and 1 woman? Surely 10 men and 10 women would bring a massive amount of different things???? Curtailing it to 2 people would seemingly contradict your own assertions.

As for your assertion that a daughter automatically will be more comfortable speaking to a woman about periods - have you read the thread? This nonsense has been dealt with and rebutted and refuted repeatedly. In summary however A) you do not know that, some daughters talk to their dads about it like mine did and some talk to no one at all. B) These days how often do kids talk to their parents about body or sex related stuff anyway rather than their peers, the internet, education in school, or a book someone buys them. C) Why is it always periods is the only thing anyone can ever think of? D) What does "more comfortable" mean anyway? All that would be required is a minimum level of comfort so communication happens. Anything after that is superfluous.

There are so many many many things required and related to child rearing. Yet all anyone has on their mind is periods. It's seriously weird and creepy. And even then its a 5 minute talk out of anything up to 21 years of child rearing. It's barely a drop in the ocean of child rearing.

As for your final sentence, why would I show you research for a claim I have never once made? Again have you not read the thread? Because people keep making this error and I have corrected it repeatedly. Read it again: I have NO WHERE ONCE claimed that two men or two women is "The best model". So why ask me for research to show that?

No what I keep saying over and over is that I see no reason to think that any model is better or worse than any other. Any combination of parents appears able to provide what a child needs just as well as any other. And no one can give a single example of something that can be provided by "one man and one woman" that any other combination is magically precluded. Quite the contrary, earlier in the thread I linked to a collection of not 1 but 75 studies showing children of gay parents fare pretty much just as well. So why do people keep claiming one model is better or the ideal when all the evidence shows all the models are pretty much equally effective and ideal?

The obvious caveat to that of course is single parenting. While single parents CAN still do all the things any other combination of parents can - clearly the stats and studies show they struggle a lot more to do so.

2 narcissistic gays, modern equivalent of having a cat a couple of decades ago. Want want want. Best of both worlds. All part of being complete drama queens. More for the attention they get (from women generally) than any actual desire to have kids. Annoying gits. Bog off and be proud or whatever. But children aren't poodles. Ha!

I think I agree entirely. Rather than control for it - I think it's one of the things they use to explain it. As in the reason parenting is much harder for them is that they end up with less time, less money, less resources, less everything required to guide and raise the kid. There is simply 1 person doing the same job normally done by 2.

At the end of the day though it doesn't mean that there is anything about parenting a single parent can not do that 2 parents or 20 parents can. It's just overall harder for them for obvious reasons.

There is a lot more to control for when looking at the out comes of single parenting than dual parenting too though. A lot more. For example the means by which the parent ended up being a single parent can often have massive implications on the well being of a child. Did the other parent die? Leave or divorce under arduous circumstances? Abandonment? When studying single parents therefore they should also have to control for the effects of whatever divide occured in the first place.

For example I have not seen many (any? Struggling to remember now) studies comparing single parents who were single from the outset by choice for example - with single parents who ended up single parenting much later in the process due to death, divorce, abandonment or worse.

So absolutely, much to control for there. You're dead right.

Hardly an upending at all. It is happening all the time. Surrogacy is only one. Adoption. Parents leaving a heterosexual relationship and entering into a homosexual relationship and parenting their child from there. And so on. That is the reality of our world today. No one is upending anything. It's already that way.

And it is not a "massive" upending either so you are doubly wrong there. The % of our species that are in homosexual relationships is small. The % of those who seek to parent is smaller still. There is nothing "massive" about any of this. In fact the people arguing most against me make this point for me as they go on and on about what is "the norm".

But you are changing the subject anyway. What you are referring to is conception and creating a child. What I am talking about is parenting a child that exists. Two different things. Once a child exists - is there any reason to think that one parental configuration can parent it better than another? Other than shouting "common sense" over and over again as if that is some magic abracadabra that makes you more right the more you repeat it with head firmly in sand?

Again if I keep looking for it from several people and no one can answer it - then I am forced to assume it is not there until such time as at least one of you can show otherwise.