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Discovering Increasing Automation in my new car

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    And is this light system detailed by RSA? Is it on our driving lessons? Does anybody check this?

    We're just comfortable that it works, don't question it, can't question it, if it works it's great if it doesn't it's drivers fault.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    We're going around in circles now. This has all been explained to you. Multiple times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Yes, the assistance is useful and great for road safety.

    And if it kills anybody the manufacturer gets no blame.

    Our regulation and guidance pretend it doesn't exist, so it's not tested or regulated.

    Am I up to speed yet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,618 ✭✭✭10-10-20




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    No.

    Failure of comprehension is my diagnosis. Inability to read a close second.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Kurooi




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,875 ✭✭✭djan


    You do realise that a blindspot is called that because you can't see anything in it. The correct procedure would be to check mirror first for traffic and if blind post light is on reassess manoeuvre or move in a way to accommodate for a potential vehicle/person being there.

    Think of it as a back up safety system same as a parking sensor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    If multiple people are explaining something to you and you still don't understand, it's either wilful or what I said above. Either way it's not something I'm going to waste any more of my valuable time on. Good bye.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Yes you're very intelligent and important, good bye :)



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    While I don't agree with all of the opinions of the users you're arguing with, they couldn't have made a simpler and more convincing argument for why your perceived issue is actually a non-issue if they tried.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,063 ✭✭✭kirving


    If we're taking blindspot monitoring specifically, this is required on trucks. I'm not sure if/when it'll be mandated for cars. I did mention the lack of training earlier too, and you dismissed it.

    https://www.fercam.com/en-int/blog/road-safety-in-europe--2-2390.html

    What you're forgetting here is the human factor. An individual human, can and should check their blindspot every time, but take millions of drivers and you know that you'll have thousands of people who forgot to check every day, and you will be one of them, one day. It's a fact of life unfortunately, and so we implement safety nets.

    On my car, the system is passive, just showing a red light if a car is in my blindspot. But if I indicate to change lanes while a car is there, it goes insane, beeping very loudly and cuts the radio so I pay attention.

    There is a line where it could become a distraction, yes (I'm thinking Tesla graphics), but the vast majority if implementations are discreet until - until they're not.

    This is why AEB doesn't brake gradually, it waits until absolutely the last second and then anchors on - so that you don't become complacent.

    That's how it should be, and why I think ultrasonics sensors can be better than a mid quality camera. A camera draws your attention to the screen, but the ultrasonics encourage you to use your mirrors. Going one step further, my old car wouldn't even use a changing tone for proximity, it has a light bar that lit up more as you got closer to an object. It was mounted in the ceiling at the rear, and absolutely forced you to turn your head and look in the mirror.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,712 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Its a bit swings and roundabouts, the likes of blind spot detection obviously helps safety but modern car design has increased the blind spot area.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yes for some reason manufacturers these days are trying to emulate the H2 Hummer but "sportier" it seems. I genuinely do not know why they need to be so bulbous and blocky. I think car design peaked between the early 2000's and mid 2010's. It's been all downhill from there, in my humble opinion of course.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,458 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Can it detect potholes though? Some in my area are very deep and dangerous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,063 ✭✭✭kirving


    https://www.mercedesofsalem.com/mercedes-benz-magic-body-control/

    More of a comfort feature, and there are limitations of course….



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Of course it's required on trucks. they don't have a back window. They can't observe their blindspot so anything is better than nothing.

    But you're getting to what my issue is there - there is a line where it becomes a distraction.

    Did anybody study that line? Does anybody actually care and evidence when those features work, when they fail and whether or not they should be used. Or is it just manufacturers one upping each other with untested features because ultimately they take no responsibility for their performance. It's the accountability I take issue with. It's something pretty much nobody gets or we're too used to defending the trillion dollar companies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    During bad weather, the front assist on my car becomes unavailable. I only know this because the car tells me that the front assist isn't functioning. I don't know for sure, but I'd be very confident if one of the safety assist functions fails on a vehicle, there will be some sort of warning that it isn't functioning.

    Have you studied the data, or is it your opinion that these safety systems aren't great, and because of that, no one tested them before fitting them, or ran any testing on them?

    Having supplied vehicles to Valeo as far back as 2015, for testing purposes of technology that still isn't mainstream yet, I can tell you that a lot of development and testing goes in to such features.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,854 ✭✭✭Brian Scan


    "Or is it just manufacturers one upping each other with untested features" 

    In what way are the features untested?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    The mid 00s was the high point in car automation and design. We got abs, electric windows airbags and all that, but not the levels of bings and bongs the new cars have.

    i have a 232 Camry platinum, a 241 Rav GR Sport and a 03 Landcruiser. The Camry beats the Rav as it doesn’t have the infernal audible warning for speed, while the Landcruiser beats them all as it just does what it’s told with no fuss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 Hailtothethief


    I learned to drive when you had to pull out the choke to start it and central locking was leaning over and pushing the button on the opposite door. Now I can lock/unlock the car from anywhere in the world using the phone. That level of automation and technology is wonderful. However, it's wonderful because I can choose to use it or not.

    Cars designed 40 to 50 years ago had very little mechanical grip compared to modern cars but due to their design, really flagged what the car was going to do. The result was that drivers felt what the car was doing and felt it through the steering wheel, pedals and their arse. Modern cars have very high mechanical grip by comparison and are a lot more insulating from the mechanicals when driving. Result is that people don't feel the signals from the car and don't know how to react when something goes wrong. Also, when something does go wrong now, it's usually a lot quicker and at higher speeds compared to 40/50 year old car designs.

    The lane departure in the current car (222 Octavia) is annoying as it often picks up seams and cracks in the surface of the road. It also doesn't like narrow roads and is constantly twitching, makeing the car feel unsettled. I have driven the new 242 version with all the extra mandatory safety stuff and hated the speed limiter. Also, I've no choice on these. They turn on EVERY TIME I start the car!

    The worst thing is the overly strong ESP and skid control. At about 20kph, the back of the car stepped out on ice over the winter. From learning to drive on cars where the right foot was the traction control, I did the obvious thing and stamp on the throttle (the front had grip so acceleration should pull the back of the car straight). The car decided "no" and wouldn't accelerate. Even stamping on and off and on the accelerator wouldn't make it move. Result was a nasty scrape on a wheel off a kerb....



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,286 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Result is that people don't feel the signals from the car and don't know how to react when something goes wrong. Also, when something does go wrong now, it's usually a lot quicker and at higher speeds compared to 40/50 year old car designs.

    40 or 50 years ago the number of road deaths in Ireland was nearly 4 times today's figure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30 Hailtothethief




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Idiots invariably get themselves killed, it's a fact of life and no government or legislation can change that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    That last line in the post you quoted would seem to disprove your contention. Especially since there are many multiples of the number of cars on the road now compared to then.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Anyone can cherry pick a singular statistic as evidence to their point, moreover there are a variety of variables at play and one can not hinge it all on the advent of new technology. Differences in infrastructure, driver education, enforcement of preexisting legislation etc.

    My response was to say that if an experienced driver doesn't want to have these features foisted upon them because idiots exist then they absolutely have the right to refuse having it mandated on them. Least of all by people who use statistics that upset them to fear monger.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,286 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    then they absolutely have the right to refuse having it mandated on them.

    Um, I have bad news for you on how the world works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    I don't need to "cherry pick" statistics. These are facts. Unless you're going to argue that mandatory seat belt use did not in fact save lives? Or ABS? Or ESC?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No I understand perfectly well how authoritarianism works, I learned about the history of the twentieth century in school just like everyone else did. I just happen to utterly despise it rather than be in lockstep with it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,286 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    This thread has taken a weird turn.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 668 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    Back on track folks. Lets leave the big brother stuff to other forums. Thanks.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That cherry picking comment wasn't directed at you.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You opened the door, I just walked through it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ah so it's okay to advocate the abuse of legislative powers to infringe on individual freedoms but when that gets rebutted it's "big brother stuff", right…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    You're kind of taking an instance of ESC deployment a bit far, aren't you? You do know you can switch it off? But you really shouldn't. Maybe this video will help you understand how it works and how to work with it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's optional now, but the end goal is mandated by law to be standard from factory and necessary to be road worthy. Which would mean you won't be able to opt out or switch it off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    I quite agree. We have a twelve year old VW, it has all the instruments and controls that you need. They are well proportioned, easy to use and built to last. ABS brakes and airbags in the background etc.

    We also have a two year old VW and frankly it's full of several bells & whistles that amount to needless distracting junk. We don't need multiple options to change the screen display, lane assist, park assist, speed limiters. Nor an infotainment system that requires fiddling by drivers. A simple radio/ CD player was fine, maybe with USB. We don't need beeps coming on when driving or distracting messages flashing up. It's the car equivalent of bloatware.

    Frankly if you can't keep within your lane on a road and/or can't reverse or parallel park - then you shouldn't be driving.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You and I aren't partaking in the same conversation at all. And I've already explained this to you before on this very thread so I'll remind you. I don't disagree with the existence of the technology, I disagree with the proposal that all of it should be mandated as essential from factory. Stop putting words in my mouth. I couldn't be any clearer about what I am saying if a I tried. So no I didn't waste my time with it because it has nothing to do with what I am actually talking about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    You disagree with its implementation. Which means you disagree with the technology. You can't say that the safety feature is fine, but you don't want to be made use it. That's back to the "I won't wear my seat belt" crap. Just with a newer badge on it.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There you go putting words in my mouth again, I disagree with the legally enforced implementation of anything beyond Seatbelts, ABS, Traction Control, and Airbags. All of this self thinking computer stuff should remain as optional extras that you can add to your vehicle if you want. As I've already stated before in my previous replies to you.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 668 CMod ✭✭✭✭LIGHTNING


    And depsite the warnings its wandered off again. Closing this.



This discussion has been closed.
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