Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

We don't have a bin collection as we don't have a bin at our house. When shopping at the supermarket, we leave as much of the plastic wrappers and containers as we can in the aisle bin. Old ice cream tubs to bring loose stuff home in. Cardboard and paper is either composted or burned in the stove.

Any wrappers we do have at the end of the week are tightly wrapped into a ball and dropped into the supermarket bin outside the supermarket. Tins and glass go in the recycle bins. We don't really have much in the way of food scraps as even they can be composted, made into stock or bird feed. Bones are burned in the stove.

Electricals can be left at a recycle centre free of charge.

With regards to the Re-Turn scheme, we are making a few Euros a week picking up cans the lazy throw in the hedges around here. Even the bins are full of them. If I can reach them, I take them!

Wherever there are lazy people, I am there to take advantage of them. Everything has value.

Independent news paper saying bin charges will have to go up now as lost millions due to this DRS.

It will get to a stage enough will be enough and only time will tell with more rubbish piling up.

We should not have bin companies, this is a service the council should be running. But a simple solution to the latest problem created by the greens is to make the bin companies part of the re-turn scheme and give them a share of the profits. If the same logic applies then the price of collections should come down

The scheme doesn't need to be abolished, it needs to be fixed. 4 steps that if a SF policy maker is here should take note of

1. Remove the deposit and the return and make it like how we return glass bottles, which are currently returned to over 90%
2. Remove private bin companies from our system and put refuse collection back in council hands. This should also help with illegal dumping
3. Remove the requirement for barcodes and re-turn logos, should help importers
4. Allow cans to be crushed so space can be saved

I can't see anybody thinking these aren't logical steps that people wouldn't vote for but at the same time keeping the rates of return and hopefully recycling high

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/opinion/simon-bourke-price-of-aluminium-on-the-rise-as-customers-lose-out-in-the-recycling-war/a1433655958.html

Some quotes from behind the paywall:

And having wholeheartedly embraced this initiative, declared it the cleverest, most innovative thing the Government has done in aeons, the customers are now set to be penalised with a price hike from the aforementioned bin companies. Yes, that’s right, by taking our bottles and cans to the machines, by tussling with the slot, fumbling with the buttons, and doing what we’re told, we are now set to see yet another household bill increase.
...
For my part at least, the irony is that I haven’t once used the DRS, have continued to feed that shiny aluminium and PET plastic into the recycling bin, keeping the bin collectors in a job and sustaining the circular economy without receiving a cent in return. Now, despite my diligence, my loyalty, I am to be penalised for the actions of others, for the creation of a scheme I wanted no part of.
...
Of course the reason why the DRS was introduced in the first place was because we weren’t recycling enough, because we needed to be lured into doing it with promises of pocket money, rewarded for our efforts in saving a planet which we previously didn’t care about.
Already there’s talk of increasing the bounty associated with these cans and bottles, giving people even more incentive to save the planet, more incentive to take part in a scheme which we’re repeatedly told is one of the great success stories of our time. We’re going to need that bounty, need those receipts, once the binmen start hiking up the prices.
Only in Ireland could something so straightforward be made so complicated, could the redistribution of used materials become a source of so much contention.

Some good points raised. An amazing exercise in masochism all round.

Full article for those interested:

Jaysus cop on. If any business loses a % of their income stream they will increase their prices. Whether it is 15 million or 5 million is irrelevant. Maybe ask ReTurn what is their estimated proceeds from their sale of recyclables.

You've cherry picked one waste company. Many people are on different packages. Besides, those prices are based on the green bin containing valuable recyclables, which are likely cross subsidising other the price for other bins. The rules of the game have changed.

I have seen no details from Return of exactly how much of their funding cones from sale of recyclables?

Have you?

Yet didnt you list official info on the scheme that it was significant enough to be listed as specific category of its funding?

This is not small change.

Obviously that is going to impact bin collection prices.

It is obvious. It is even noted in posts you have made on this thread listing Returns sources of funding. True or false?

Not a good look is it when you are contradicting your own posts?

Why dont Return provide the information on their expected funding from the items?

I dont know what universe you think this is a rule or how the premise of that question has any relevance.

15 million euro of funding gone from the bin companies.

Do you expect them to print money?

Collect your bins at a loss?

In the real world these are the economic realities that lead to price increases.

If it was a publicly run scheme funded by LPT the same loss of revenue stream would impact funding of the whole operation.

So spare us the irrelevent venting about profits.

This was explained to you already on the thread and you had no credible response then either.

They are not just collecting your bin. They are collecting tens of thousands and enough of those bins had recyclables sufficient to provide revenue to help fund the operation.

Do you think you as an individual get some bespoke specific pricing?

You dont get that for bin charges.

You dont get that for LPT.

Thats the real world.

If they were in breach of contract in selling on the recyclables you should sue them.

If they are in breach of contract in increasing prices to cover the lost revenue, you should sue them.

I think you will find the contract entitles them to increase prices. Either you keep paying or change supplier. As this has affected all bin companies thats not a real solution either.

Would you expect bin companies to keep collecting your bins if you stop paying?

If you were supplying a shop and could no longer provide the product, would you expect the shop to keep paying you?

So in what real world would you expect the company buying the recyclables to keep paying the bin companies?

Baffling nonsense.

The reality is the bin companies will get the 15 million back - if not from the government or Return then in higher charges to customers.

No one has given any credible or coherent alternative. Tangents about contracts and profits are irrelevancies that dont change that reality.

A few posts in this thread have outlined price increases by bin companies since the turn of the year, myself included, local operator increasing monthly fee by 1.75. Am still awaiting an email as to why but again the logic as to why would be straightforward in the context of this thread, whether they will state it or not.

That was probably to do with the levy, which they would have been entitled to put back on customers. But there is zero evidence that they are suffering any losses from DRS. It looks like they got their friends in the press to put out vague stories about an increase, but they failed to go through the proper channels to present evidence to the Minister first.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/75262-introduction-of-new-environment-levies-will-incentivise-recycling-and-help-ireland-meet-our-eu-waste-targets/#

The legislation introduces a waste recovery levy of €10 per tonne (or 1,000kg), and a €10 increase to the existing "landfill levy" to €85 per tonne. As the levies apply only to ‘black’ bin waste, householders can manage the impact of this charge by sorting their waste and reusing and recycling as much as possible to minimise their overall household waste charges.

It's you because Fine Gael privatised our waste collection out to a bunch of cowboys who only care about their bottom line. That's why YOU'LL end up paying more when THEIR profits are affected. Re-turn are now making bank on items like aluminium because of this idiotic scam and the likes of Greyhound, Panda, City Bin, Thorntons, etc aren't going to just shrug their shoulders at that. They'll recoup their loses by increasing their charges…and no doubt stick an extra few cent on top of that as well, just because.