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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    One would hope so, to the East of the town. Priority must be given for non stop running to Maynooth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 OisinCooke


    I think that a Maynooth Line to Kildare Line is a must. I have heard many both on and off this forum saying it should run from Leixlip Confey to Clondalkin via Lucan but this would require almost the entire thing to be built in a tunnel and given we can’t even get an underground railway built in our capital city where it is actually desperately needed, the chances of a semi-rural and decentralised underground railway is slim at best…

    A Kilcock - Hazelhatch link would be easier as it is all only greenfields land out there, but I think a connection from beyond Maynooth to Adamstown is more favourable as even though there is more buildings and used land that the railway has to be routed around, the Sligo/Mullingar/Longford etc services would still have access to Maynooth as well as providing an interchange with DART+ there also.

    The only problem I can see is the need for a grade separated link with the Kildare line as the fast lines into Heuston are going to be be on the southern side. An at-grade crossing could be used however this would only potentially hinder service frequency. As the line is so short however, it could be built as a single track which would definitely make the project both cheaper and less invasive which is food for thought…

    As for a stop at Celbridge, maybe the railways presence might naturally cause the town to sprawl northeastwards but as of now I think a Celbridge North/East station would be no closer and no more useful to the town than the current one and should only be built if needed as it would be an obvious hinder to frequency of Sligo services.



  • Registered Users Posts: 563 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Single track alignment has proven a huge success in Ireland up until now 🤔😅

    But in fairness it's actually not a terrible idea. However one would hope a double alignment is not so prohibitively expensive versus a single track!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,826 ✭✭✭SeanW


    This would be a terrible idea - if the Sligo/Longford services are to be re-routed into Heuston, it should be beyond Maynooth, as direct access to that town is a big draw for 3rd level students. More broadly, I also think that bringing the Sligo/Longford service to Heuston would be detrimental as not only would that be further from the City Centre, DART, Northern services and Busarus today, but it would also result in Sligo/Longford passengers losing direct access to the Metro (if that ever gets built) which would otherwise have a direct interchange at Glasnevin Junction.

    IMHO the money spent on such a link would be better spent adding passing places on the Maynooth line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,876 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    A single track line for this project would be classic false economy.

    Just do it right first time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Such a link would also be quite beneficial for Dart stock to get to/from Hazlehatch/Heuston and the depot in Maynooth.

    Depending on space available a curve could potentially be added to the link to allow a direct connection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    In fact (given it's only 6/7km) at least tripple track, for a regular DART service and mainline trains.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 OisinCooke


    Hahaha a very good point…

    Yes though actually, given that it’s only a 6km stretch of track, doubling it from the get go probably wouldn’t be a whole lot more expensive

    (speaking of, does anyone know are they planning to build the M3 Parkway - Navan extension as double track…? And will this be DART operated or more of an intercity/commuter service?)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Maynooth would be connected to Kilcock by a frequent DART servicewhich would only be possible thanks to making the existing Kilcock to maynooth section DART only. The DART is a far more important service than inter city.

    Heuston is good enough as the main terminal for all Cork, Galway, Waterford, Kerry, Limerick and West port services so it's good enough for Sligo also, the alternative is less trains to Sligo and a worse DART service, which is unacceptable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,792 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The capacity crunch where removing Sligo services would have the most impact is from Clonsilla in - Maynooth-Kilcock would be nowhere near as badly impacted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    True but why not remove other constraints while at it, do it right the first time. We might want 5 minute darts to kilcock in the future and half hourlys to sligo or an enhanced Longford commuter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,652 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    The tracks are closest at Leixlip/Adamstown areas, but it would be nice to for this track to take in Celbridge



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    One trick they are missing with DART+ West is not adding a third track around Clonsilla station. There are alreay sidings on both sides of the station and fields earmarked for development from there to the Dr. Troy Bridge. Clonsilla station should be rebuilt east of the R121 with a pass-thru track in the middle and a decent length of triple-track either side. That way Maynooth/outer commuter trains could overtake DARTs. Would be very easy to do, particularly if part of DART+ West works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 36 OisinCooke


    Would be great but that would require large scale demolition and land purchase or tunnelling, neither or which are necessary especially when another, much more viable route is available.

    If Kilcock - Maynooth was doubled and the spur built after Maynooth, the problem would be more or less solved. The only problem I can see would be the presence of only 2 platforms in Maynooth, a third or fourth platform could be relatively easily added space wise, even 2 terminating platforms where the current station car park is, would be great for terminating DART services



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,792 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The northern carpark is going to become a bus lane / interchange to take buses off Parson Street so that's not possible. Southern is elevated and part is going for the substation for DART+

    There were platforms on the sidings once upon a time, before the original station closure in the 40s



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I've said it before but extending DART to Kilcock gives the opportunity to rebuild the station further west and with four platforms. I'd see that as a better solution than messing around in Maynooth where space is tight and any proposal would have compromises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 200 ✭✭Bsharp


    Is there platform capacity at Heuston Station for the additional sligo services, or even for the kildare/cork line proposed increases under AI-SRR? It doesn't seem to feature anywhere as a study. Any additonal platforms would need to be future proofed for a tunnel alignment as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,792 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The existing station is doomed - there isn't anywhere practical to put in a second platform. The platform is built on the track bed, even if it was moved back and the track re-slewed to where double track would be there'd be nowhere to put the opposite one.

    I suspect a station to the west of the town, around where the original station was is the likely answer; but that isn't suitable for 4 platforms either.

    The Maynooth long-term transport plan published last week has a Maynooth West P&R station around the 14th Lock on the Royal Canal. That would be more likely as a four track station. I would expect Kilcock to only get one in two or one in three DARTs anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 LastCall


    Station location can be seen it this picture for anyone interested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,214 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Is that going to be an active station or just a depot?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Yes there would be capacity at Heuston to have the Sligo and Longford services run through to there. After that, capacity would be fairly full.

    Heuston has the benefit of “calling on” signalling which allows a train to arrive on top of one already at the platform. So there is a lot of flexibility. They may need to turn around trains a bit quicker than currently. An added benefit is Sligo services can easily be serviced at Portlaoise as they’ll be on the right side.

    I would suggest a line trailing off after Adamstown down road that drops under the 4 tracks and up and out on the other side. Thus no conflicts. On the up side a high speed join up on to the fast line at grade.

    That line must be double track over to the Maynooth line. A station at Celbridge East should be built and encourage development in that direction.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭thomasj




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    What would be the point of a Maynooth West station? Maybe if the was a motorway junction there, a P&R station might make sense. It would be better to just extend DART to Kilcock where it would actually serve people.

    Both Maynooth and Kilcock could do with a second, further east station, no point in going west.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 LastCall


    I was thinking the same thing, possibly it's a primer for Transit Oriented Development on that end of town.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Economics101


    @bikeman1: "I would suggest a line trailing off after Adamstown down road that drops under the 4 tracks and up and out on the other side. Thus no conflicts. On the up side a high speed join up on to the fast line at grade"

    Won't work. After DART+, the Up and Down fast lines will both be both on the Down side , with the slow and/or DART+ lines on the North side. Not that easy to engineer a conflict-free flyover in these circumstances.

    I find much of this discussion a bit prematire: first get approval for the detailed DART+ plans now with ABP. Heaven knows how many more years would be wasted if you were to go for really radical amendments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,871 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Why on the western side though? CPOs have been confirmed for the ring road and new bridge over canal/rail line on the east side of the town so it will have better infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,792 ✭✭✭✭L1011




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Sorry you are correct. Then the two lines branch off there and under. Yes there will be some conflict, but nothing worse than anywhere on the network like at Cherryville and Portarlington. It will only conflict in the up direction.

    This is the infrastructure section. We talk about lots of things many moons off (unfortunately) but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be discussed. This is part of relieving pressure on DART West and improving services beyond Maynooth which will an even slower service because they will be behind a DART all the way.

    It’s in the strategic rail review. It’s a 4 mile line, pathetic if we can’t manage that. Of course DART + has priority but this should be following close behind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,883 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    what occurs in those two communications rooms on the kilbarrack side of Howth Junction station?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The RO for Dart+ Coastal North has been submitted into the planning system.

    Some Details here on the RTÉ website.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2024/0712/1459537-dart-drogheda/

    However there is more details about the application on IÉ's website.



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