Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

How about the poor sod paying 500k and him being the one who needed the affordable subsidy on top of it…………..

"100k is nothing in Dublin really". This is absolute nonsense in reality, lets have a look at some of the actual statistics:

The median household income in Ireland in 2023 was €55k.

As of early 2024 about 357,000 households now earn more than €100k jointly. Or circa 20% of the households in the country.

And as mentioned on a previous page, alternatively for an individual earner, it puts someone in the top 7% of earners in Ireland.

So someone in either the top 7% of earners individually, or a household in the top 20% if income, is the income now required to buy "affordable housing".

Not quite "nothing", I think most people would agree.

And also objectively hugely worrying - what are the other 80% of households meant to do exactly? What are they to afford, if heavily subsidized 'affordable' housing in Coolock is out of their price range? We're not talking about private sector, 5 bedroom detached houses in Donnybrook, being unaffordable here.

No.

"In 2016, the median household income in Ireland was €45,256. Adjusting
for inflation to 2020 (the latest year for which income data is
available), the equivalent median household income is approximately
€55,000"

https://gamma.ie/2023/03/22/geographical-home-affordability-patterns-in-ireland/

Though the article I quoted from was from 2023 their data does appear to be from 2020, so it certainly is more than 55k now I'll concede.

But even allowing for significant income increases since between 2020 and now (off the top of my head its at about 15%?) median income is going to be at most circa 65,000 now. Nowhere near 100k household income being a common thing.

The CSO disposable income figure doesn't discount much income.

" disposable income is after some payments have been deducted:

• Interest paid
• Social contributions (such as PRSI) and pension contributions
• Tax like income tax, capital gains tax and Universal Social Charge
• Miscellaneous transfers like donations and subscriptions to Non-Profit Organisations"

https://www.cso.ie/en/interactivezone/statisticsexplained/nationalaccountsexplained/householdgrossdisposableincome/

Someone earning €32,500 a year only pays approx €4,600e a year in taxes. Which would mean an after tax household disposable income of €55k would equate to a pre-tax household income of approx €65k, as above.

And again, even if inflated by another 10%, or 20%, or even 30% its absolutely miles away from €100k being a common household income. €100k is by any reckoning tens of thousands of euros above the median household income, nevermind being "nothing" as claimed.

If the median is 55k for a couple they to upskill instead of thinking the state will provide for them in handy jobs

Not getting nto a debate on tax as this is a housing forum and not tax a tax forum.

OP stated tax etc didn’t discount much income which is totally not the case especially when you get into higher tax brackets. My point was simple that this is bs because the more you earn the more tax you pay (I.e. progressive tax system) so there is a big difference between disposable income (as defined by cso) and gross income

I pay about 40-45k in tax each year. That's money that I will not only never benefit from, but rather it's money given to a state that will use it to create the mayhem that has become "normal" in the last few years.

Really it's the decay of the GDP model. This is a dire metric of success for a country as it merely measures the amount of money in the economy and not anything really tangible. The money itself is just FIAT funny-money, ergo after the absolutely insane printing of cash over the last four years, it has risen even though life is objectively worsening.

I don't know where this is going to end up, but we can look to countries like the USA or the UK, where things are seemingly a little further along than here. I'm not at all optimist about the future.

not my figure…it’s the cso figures which show the median income for Dublin back in 2022….that should be a reliable source which backs up the claim that 2 people working on the median (not average) would be close to 100k. Which is very different to your original post claiming only top 20% of earners would have this income.

A significant percentange of households in Ireland don't have two incomes.

2x individual median incomes != not the median household income.

Your very own CSO figure that you posted gave a median household disposable income of €55k per year after tax. Which, as I posted, would suggest a gross household income of circa €65k. Nowhere close to €100k.

OP claimed a couple on a combined gross income of 100k in Dublin was the top 20%….a assumption based on a statistic of disposable income after tax prsi pension contributions etc. rather than just say I didn’t realise this they doubled down and said there wasn’t much difference between gross and disposable and it was negligible. The cso stats say otherwise and show an average household income of 90k for Ireland (so will be higher for Dublin no doubt)

Yes this is average and not median and will include people retired, on benefits, working part time and full time employees which does not support that it is only the top 20% and debunks the back of a fag packed calculation that OP doubled down on.

would be interested to know what they define as single and if it truly is FTB.

reason being that there will be a lot of people separated/divorced that are paying way more than a mortgage on rent and will have the necessary deposits etc but are locked out of housing market as won’t be able to get a mortgage because the way the banks take into account maintenance payments etc…. When these ‘FTB’ schemes were launched it also addressed this issue and although some of these people previously owned joint properties would be considered FTB in certain circumstances and this may explain it.

When these ‘FTB’ schemes were launched it also addressed this issue and although some of these people previously owned joint properties would be considered FTB in certain circumstances and this may explain it.

This was a recent change it would not account for the 2021 figure of 32% of ftb being single

Average is a very different, much less relevant, figure to median. If you don't understand the difference between the two it explains a lot.

Increasingly our taxes and state assets are being used to "assist" Middle to upper income range population cope with unsustainable prices and increase the wealth of asset owners

This is not sustainable, another term of FFG will be a disaster for the economy

He points to the new Land Development Agency cost-rental scheme in Citywest. There, tenants are being charged €1,390 for a one-bedroom, €1,580 for a two-bedroom and €1,750 for a three-bedroom