Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

That Indo article was recycled in local papers this week, and I was able to read it. Simon Bourke's friends in the IWMA came up with a genius idea for their members to get their hands on the aliminium:

"Prior to the advent of the DRS, the Irish Waste Management Association, proposed a system whereby customers using a mobile phone app linked to their bank account, could scan cans and bottles at home, before putting them in their recycling bin."

Bourke than says: "That clearly made too much sense. It would have negated the need for expensive reverse vending machines to be installed in supermarkets around the country."

The odd thing is that the IWMA website does not have any information about this plan or about the supposed €15m losses being suffered by their members. Instead they chose a writer of populist polemics to muddy the waters with a nonsense article in the Indo group of papers. I wonder what is going on?

Bourke mentioned that he never used the machines and continues to support his local waste companies by putting his cans and bottles in his Green Bin. And complains that he will now be penalised with higher charges, because other people have abandoned their loyalty to their companies. He certainly knows how to make a case for his client.

This is exactly right. I go further and say if re-turn are not enabling the exchange of in-scope items for deposits, they are not doing their job. It's simply not their money to withhold.

My best overall 'experience' has been in my local Tesco, 4 machines, not yet seen more than 1 out of service at any one time. Worst experience is with Aldi, 2 machines outside the shop, only once seen both machines in working order, they usually put the shutters on them an hour before the shop closes just to make them that bit more useful 🤔.

No, it seems it's a rule not getting enforced, and no one is calling them out on it

again o day it here in case anyone finds bottles being rejected. Any dinged looking or rejected bottles should be re-shaped by blowing into them, I have found this works almost every time. Shouldn’t have to be doing that, of course, with this silly scheme.

As per my previous post, just cut out the barcode from deformed bottles and cans and stick them on a good one. I'm assuming that deformed ones are picked off the street, as there is no need for anyone to deform them in the home? Plenty of out of scope empties in good condition around if people need them. Although my experiment with out of shape containers found the machines to be tolerable of significant damage. They certainly do not need to be pristine.

The only trouble I had with a machine was one of those tiny bottles, which was pristine. Kept coming out and threating to fall into the lip space in a Dunnes machine. So if I had one of those again, I would cut out the barcode and stick it on a bigger bottle.

Try it yourself. Swap two barcodes from different size/shape bottles and see what happens. Remove the collars/sleeves and sellotape on only the barcode. The machine only needs to see a barcode. And a shape it expects in general, which is not related to the barcode.

3.5 Weight Detection
RVMs are only required to accept empty containers. To identify partially filled or fully filled containers, an RVM
should use weight detection. This weight detection requires an accuracy of at least 95%. Containers should
weigh no more than 100 grams including any excess liquid. If a container is identified as not empty, the
container should be rejected.

RVM’s must be capable of accepting:
• With a minimum width of 50mm.
• With a maximum width of 120mm.
• With a minimum height of 100mm.
• With a maximum height of 360mm.

There are apps that generate barcodes and allow you to print them out, you're saying someone could print out a barcode from a 2l bottle, stick it on a 500ml bottle and get a higher deposit.

Thinking further on that barcode generator. People could buy in the North with no deposit and stick on those fraudulent barcodes to the empties. Criminals will always find a way.

Taking a barcode from a deformed bottle and sticking it on with sellotape to an out of scope bottle certainly works. For instance there are Lucozade bottle from multi packs which have no barcodes. They are the exact size and shape of in scope bottles.

Pickers do a service to the community, and are not despised in other countries like they are here. Except the ones who raid dustbins, if that is happening. I believe other countries have holders on the outside of street bins where people can "donate" their empties to the pickers. I put the crushed bottles and cans in my Green Bin, after transferring the barcode to a good container. Which is a double win for the environment, and will keep up business for my bin company. Although reading the stuff this week, I think they should be paying me for the material.

Not only do some people not need the 15 or 25 cents. They don't even need the liquid. I found two 2 litre water bottles this morning both almost full. And an unopened can of Pepsi yesterday.

I believe bottle size does matter tho depends on the machine. My SV reads and accepts the bottle/can and shows on the screen what the bottle/can is, ie; Heineken 500 ml.

Anything that involves extra work for free seems to be acceptable and doesn't complicate the return of containers.

Mention something that might make actually help customers get their money back or include an excluded group and the spoof Olympics start or its tumbleweeds.

Im starting to think we have people in this thread directly connected to Re-Turn.

And you are the resident ambassador for foreign countries telling us how backward and stupid Irish gombeens are. Some of those countries have had over 20 years to evolve their schemes. Ours is fine for simple people like me. Pay a deposit, get it back from the machine. Or don't bother if you don't need the money.

One benefit for me is I save money on my usual beer which is 7.99 for a 4 pack. No deposit charged but I get 15c back on each when I bring them back. No idea why theres no deposit charged as it has the recycle sympol?

Many businesses , cafes, restaurants are getting their cans/bottles somewhere without the Return logo, lots of polish cans etc .

What the actual fuck?

Our government is going to "compensate" private companies because their profits have lessened? What kind of a fucked up world am I living in?

The sooner we re-nationalise our waste management the better.

I hadnt realised all caps are now awkward to get off, too much nannying

It would be cheaper to compensate than take it back. It was costing LA a fortune. Nothing to see here Jim just the law of unintended conquences

While the cost may be cheaper to the consumers the state ends up subventing the LA's. When rubbish collection services were privatised the mistake made was that they shoukd have been tendered out for 5-10 year periods lime NCT's. Instead it was left as a free for all.

LA similar to the public health service do not have the flexibility to run services. Take the use of high tech hospital equipment private heath providers run them for 16+ hours days amd even Saturdays and Sundays.

Bin companies are similar they run the trucks for 12-14 hour days, they segerate rubbish so as to extract as much recyclables from black and commercial bins where its profitable to do so.

Eamon Ryan decide to being in a deposit system for bottles and drink cans. These had a commercial value to bin companies. They were bound to lose revenue when this was bought in and if they lose revenue they would increase charges.

This would have been a double whammy to there customers, these are the people who were recycling plastic bottle and cans anyway and now they were going to have to take the bottles back to the shop as well as pay extra to there bin poroviders

No increases??? Email from Bord na Móna received on Wednesday. Obviously Ossian Smyth hasn't been talking to Bord na Móna.

"From 1st of July, your Pay by Lift bi-annual service charge will not change. Your Pay by Lift charges will increase by the following amounts: General Waste Bin €1.20 per lift, Recycling bin €0.40 per lift, Organic bin €0.80 per lift, Glass bin €0.40 per lift. As we encourage our customers to recycle more, we would like to highlight that there is a weight limit on the general waste bin. The limit is 195kg for 240lt bins and 105kg for 140lt. Excess kilos over this will be billed quarterly at the cost of 28 cents per additional kilo."

Have to be a bit cynical here-do we have to be bribed with a gift of a deposit refund to collect litter? Thousands of people including myself have participated in clean up days/schemes and would not think of being compensated!

Nothing too wrong with system, but for fact there will always be a certain percent never returned, and it adds up to millions that are lining the pockets of those running it, when those millions should be paying for more and more bulk return points, and manual return sites……….. if it is really about returning items, as at the minute it seems to be about making money.

Its here to stay just like when it was bought in elsewhere. You need to get a gun to shoot yourself in the foot. This idea of crushing cans and bottles that have a value is stupidity you are handing the system money to run itself.

Unless you are very bear the border its not an option. You should really be printing off bar codes to collect the DRS.