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General British politics discussion thread

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    #14552
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,355 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Frost is the nasty boy who scuppered Penny Mordaunt chances in becoming leader, by knifing her in public. The guy who went to negotiate with Michael Barnier, without a single page, not in good faith.



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    #14553
    deirdremf
    Registered Users Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122344246#Comment_122344246

    The "British Constitution" is just the sum total of the body of laws and jurisprudence. Westminster can legislate for whatever they like and it is "constitutional" - which just means LEGAL.



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    #14554
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    We have, to all intents and purposes, the same mechanism in Ireland for appointing specialists to the government via the Seanad.

    To my mind there is nothing wrong with it. It is the other 800 odd people in the Lords for no real reason that are the problem…



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    #14555
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345582#Comment_122345582

    The House of Lords is the only place where meaningful scrutiny of legislation takes place. Don't get me wrong, it's a bug and not a feature but it's not at the top of the list of things that need to change here. That would be burning FPTP.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #14556
    drury..
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭drury..


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345560#Comment_122345560

    I admitted I'm not a lawyer but the general point stands

    Banning MPs from double jobbing is not way to get Nigel Farage off the tv



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    #14557
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,184 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122342402#Comment_122342402

    …… "Then it becomes a question of when the UK starts to fall into a Lebanon style internal conflict- which could easily spillover into Ireland if Refugees keep flowing in."

    Blood hell what a grim & depressing thought, sounds like a scene from the film 28 Days later 😕



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    #14558
    Shoog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭Shoog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345812#Comment_122345812

    Sounds like a paranoid fantasy.



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    #14559
    zell12
    Registered Users Posts: 24,798 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Will Labour now take the mantle and change the voting system from FPTP to PR? Or do they view 34% vote resulting in 63% of seats as perfectly normal



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    #14560
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346162#Comment_122346162

    Unlikely. You don't destroy a system that prevents you from being worse than second.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #14561
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 13,074 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Dare I say it, put it to a referendum.



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    #14562
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346162#Comment_122346162

    They'll view it as perfectly useful for them.



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    #14563
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345560#Comment_122345560

    The UK constitution is exactly three words long. "Parliament is God."

    Anything can be made legal in a day. Legal means you can kill God's appointed king and disband the 'rump' Parliament and become Lord Protector for life.

    There are no checks or balances other than shame. Boris showed how easily much of the "constitution" could be bypassed. Dictatorial laws from Henry VIII were used when it suited.

    Look at the fixed term parliament act, it required a two thirds majority in the commons to have an earlier election. Instead you could rush through the Early Parliamentary General Election Act 2019 in a single day because parliament can't bind it's successors. Using 3 members out of the hundreds

    on the Privy Council to force Mrs Windsor to do Boris' bidding.

    The house of lords is vulnerable to stuffing it full of new members at any time to force a new majority. It's been in the playbook for a over century. The Liberals threatened to do it to get the 1910 budget through.



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    #14564
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346162#Comment_122346162

    With PR both Labour and Tories would likely split down the middle into true-believers and centrists.

    With multi seat constituencies the punters wouldn't have to accept what party HQ throw at them.

    From back when it when was it was Tory vs Liberal , Labour were growing and the Irish were static on 82 MP's so not that far removed from today when the smaller parties split the vote.

    It was after his defeat in 1906 that a Unionist ex-MP and statistician,
    James Parker Smith, first discovered the so-called 'cube law' describing
    the exaggerative effects. Roughly, as between the top two parties, the
    ratio of their seat shares is the cube of the ratio of their popular
    vote shares.



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    #14565
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    In losing her seat did Liz Truss set a record as the first former PM to lose their seat or has it happened before?

    Certainly in my lifetime they typically didn't seek re-election after they stepped down as PM. Teresa May was the first one to do so (in 2019). There have been a lot of PMs over hundreds of years though so I'm not sure if that has always been the convention.



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    #14566
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346377#Comment_122346377

    Even as recently as the 70's PMs would lose elections and stay on as leader to contest the next one.

    Falling on your sword is a very new concept.



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    #14567
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346377#Comment_122346377

    Asquith lost his seat in 1924 but he was still party leader at the time.



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    #14568
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,659 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346377#Comment_122346377

    Bonar Law edit: Balfour just after resigning as PM before the election I believe.

    Heath stayed in parliament for decades after ceasing to be PM.

    Post edited by L1011 at


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    #14569
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Sir Alec Douglas Home (14th Earl Home but renounced his title to enter HoC as PM) was PM in 1963 - 64, losing to Wilson. He served as Foreign Secretary under Edward Heath and remained in the HOC until 1974 when Heath was defeated. He returned to the HoL as a life peer.

    So it is not unusual for a PM to remain in the HoC after ceasing to be PM, and even to become FS.



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    #14570
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346461#Comment_122346461

    Bonar Law died before the subsequent general election.



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    #14571
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    In excellent news, the vile and cruel Rwanda plan is dead:

    Sir Keir Starmer has killed off the Rwanda deportation plan on the first day of his premiership.

    Labour insiders told The Telegraph the Tory scheme to deport migrants arriving in the UK illegally to Rwanda was effectively “dead” after the party pledged to scrap it if it won the election.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/05/starmer-kills-off-rwanda-plan-on-first-day-as-pm/

    A good opening move for his premiership, I think.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #14572
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,106 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346461#Comment_122346461

    Justing reading up on Bonar Law and that doesn't seem to be the case. He resigned in May 1923 and died in October. The election wasn't until December.

    (He did lose his seat at both the 1906 & 1910 elections but that was long before he became PM)



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    #14573
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,659 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It was Balfour. Too many PMs with B surnames around that time!



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    #14574
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,527 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345119#Comment_122345119

    I don't think it's all that well known here. Fair play to them for giving prisoners a second chance.

    I think this is well worth watching:

    https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1809563222527086618

    Nice to see a humane attitude towards the concept of prison. UKIP just wanted to build more.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #14575
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Wilson was PM lost to Heath and then came back as PM for a second stint.



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    #14576
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346716#Comment_122346716

    He's obviously completely correct, but just wait til the first convicted person not jailed goes and does another crime. Hopefully they can rise above the inevitable appalling messaging I can already see coming from the Tories.



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    #14577
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,444 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346377#Comment_122346377

    Ramsay McDonald retired as Prime Minister in June 1935 and then lost his seat in the November 1935 general election. I think he was the last ex-Prime Minister before Truss to lose their seat in an election.

    (McDonald was re-elected at a bye-election in January 1936 - for a different constituency - and was still an MP when he died in November 1937.)



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    #14578
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346642#Comment_122346642

    Vile, cruel, pointless and unworkable. This is what damned the Tories more than anything, it was performative cruelty for no reason and for the most part people could see through it. I regret to say that if they had an equally cruel policy that actually had any impact it would be a lot more popular. However, their cruel streak is no longer tempered by basic competence.



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    #14579
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346806#Comment_122346806

    I would have thought that the possibility of the return of National Service was just as dumb.



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    #14580
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,516 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346806#Comment_122346806

    Most of it was aimed at appealing to the racist and bigoted OAPs. Hilariously, the majority of said racists appear to have voted for Reform instead (meaning the Rwanda plan may well have cost the Tories a huge amount of potential votes and contributed to many seat losses).



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    #14581
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,667 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346801#Comment_122346801

    They are running out of prison places and will need to release current offenders early to make space for others waiting to be sentenced. That is if your case gets to see the light of day in court and the courts system does not collapse because the cuts made to it.

    Any Tory opposition is blunted by the truth, "you left us with this and we are trying to fix it and if we could do it on the first day we would and you would have done it as well so be quiet and let the grownups fix your mess". That should last a couple years I would think.



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