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SA vs Ireland First Test 2024 - The World Champions vs The Best Team in the World

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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,498 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It was as much a brain fart as his offload going out of touch that resulted in Osborne's try was. Both avoided a SA lineout but in one the Irish player was live to it and in another they weren't. Now maybe he didn't communicate properly, but everyone standing still around him were at fault.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Was thinking about Lowe's screw up from the kick off. If the ball bounces in the field of play and then goes dead from a kick off, is it restarted with a scrum at half way? I thought the scrum back was only if it was in open play. I thought if it was from a kick off, it was a 5 metre scrum or goal line drop out.

    Or maybe I'm completely wrong and mixing it up with something else. Any refs here know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,466 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    If the ball is kicked into the opponents’ in-goal without touching any player and an opponent grounds the ball without delay or it goes dead through in-goal, the non-kicking team has the option of having the kick retaken or a scrum.

    If the ball is kicked into the kicking team’s own in-goal and is made dead by a defending player or it goes dead through in-goal, the non-kicking team is awarded a five-metre scrum.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30 FtD v2


    Andy Farrell mentioned this post game, and also suggested Craig Casey caught a couple of South African restarts and kicked them (relatively poorly) to touch that he thought would have gone dead if the ball was just left.

    Handre Pollard had a really poor game - poor off the tee and must have been ecstatic Whitehouse found a reason to disallow Lowe’s try because Lowe embarrassed him on that one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Thanks. For some reason I thought it was something different from a kick off if it bounced in play first. No idea where I got that from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    if it bounces and goes into touch, that's OK and we just restart with a lineout - maybe that's what you're thinking of?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,989 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    No it was definitely something to do with touch in goal from a kick off. Maybe there was a trial law that was scrapped or something like that that I'm thinking of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,506 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Ireland were fairly poor. Lots of meh performances. Beirnes should not be trying to muscle up the middle, he's not strong enough. Aki was poor. Lowe a mixed bag and Henshaw was a non factor. Casey did ok. He put in a good shift. Crowley was meh. Good thing Pollard was poor off the tee. We'd have been hosed.

    PSDT was my man of the match. Brilliant player. O'Mahony was poor. I reckon he's about done. Bealham was minced in the only scrum he was involved in. Ireland had no attacking structures. I thought we were deserved losers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Just watched the game back after missing it live. A short summary would be that we were physically outmatched for most of the game, second best fitness-wise, and made too many errors.

    There's always talk about POM, and I'm tired to death of defending him at this stage. Sure, his game isn't freakish athleticism and making line breaks by running over people - but that's not his game. His game is technically astute, and he shows up in big moments. At 13:50 in the game today, he gets back to a ruck and seals out a ruck after Osborne takes a high ball in the back field. If he doesn't get there and get such a low (arguably illegal) body position, South Africa are counter rucking us off that ball and attacking in our 22m. Similarly, his dark arts of grabbing Faf De Klerk on 40:50 means FdK can't get to the ruck to move the ball away, allowing Doris to get the turnover. He was busy in defence making tackles and I've seen him have far worse games for Ireland. Substitutions are pre-determined in the modern game and I don't really buy the whole "he can't last for longer than fifty minutes" line. With Baird on the bench covering backrow (i.e. covering 6), POM is the only one that's going to be taken off in that scenario.

    Our best performers by far were Beirne and Doris. Beirne put in his usual huge shift of physicality, workrate, and being a turnover demon. Doris was outstanding ball in hand.

    Thought Casey had a fine game. There were a few comments giving out about his speed of delivery in the first half, but I don't think there was any stage where he was particularly ponderous. You can only go as fast as your pack's workrate and ruckwork will allow. His kicking was mostly very good too (one poor exit clearance of a restart aside - which thankfully lead to nothing).

    Lowe is unreal going forward and critical to the way we attack - but there's creeping signs of the old Lowe returning - some questionable defensive reads which thankfully weren't capitalised on and a few errors which, as one or two others pointed out, he gets away with because he has credit in the bank, but another newer, more inexperienced, or less reputable winger would've been crucified for.

    I think JVDF was largely at fault for the first try - he shoots far too aggressively out of the line to try and shut down the attack while down numbers instead of trusting his inside drift and defending a bit softer. Doris is tracking hard on the inside, so if JVDF drifts and jockeys backwards a bit, we might lose 15 or 20m, but we won't concede the line break.

    Crowley not great off the tea - but he's as defensively solid an out-half as you're going to come across. He got run at a lot today and took his man down every time. He's far more reliable than Carbery ever was in defence.

    Osborne made the mistakes you'd expect a debutant to make (touching ball on kick at 9:00, a knock on or two) - but also had a really commanding performance under contestable high balls. His knowledge of the attacking system Ireland use needs to improve a bit - for example at 4:50 I feel he's very overeager to carry despite POM and Henshaw being available already. After Henshaw carries, he tries to run in the same lane as POM. If he holds his width a bit, there's loads of room left by KLA shooting in after POM gets the pass away. Instead, he's so tight he gets caught and can't get the ball away. It's a small thing which I imagine Keenan would've done on autopilot without thinking - but that'll come with time.

    One thing that has flown under the radar a bit is our scrum dominance in the first half. Porter was uncharacteristically square in his scrummaging and we were getting the nudge on quite a bit. Unfortunately lost this when their bomb squad came on and Healy/Bealham took over from Porter/Furlong.

    Overall, lots of work-ons. I think I'd give the starting XV (minus injuries) a chance to redeem themselves by starting next weekend - but I'd make a few changes on the bench.

    I'd go for something like Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, McCarthy, Beirne, POM, JVDF, Doris, Murray, Crowley, Lowe, Aki, Ringrose, Nash, Osbourne | Herring, O'Toole, Jager, Ryan, Prendergast Sr., Blade, Frawley, Timoney. I wouldn't complain if Ryan (who had a good cameo) started ahead of McCarthy or Frawley/O'Brien instead of Osbourne. Izzy and Prendergast Sr. on the bench is a 50/50 too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,579 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I don't think Beirne was necessarily trying to muscle up the middle, he just seemed to be the one constantly dealing with slow and sometimes loose ball.



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