Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

New bus gates on Bachelors Walk and Aston Quay

Options
17810121320

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Must be a payoff situation then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    We’re all familiar with your particular penchant for confidently announcing the end of active transport projects. You were adamant just a few months ago that councillors would never vote for the Active Streets projects in Dun Laoghaire, that had assured you so personally. I think your success rate is below 50% at this stage, it’s time to take a break.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Dun Laoghaire Plan will be reversed, just the way this one in the city centre is going.

    The writing is all the wall, you're the one deluding yourself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ah but it isn't though, is it?

    Retail Excellence Ireland and the Restaurants Association of Ireland are two massive umbrellas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Didn't you also tell us the Clontarf works would stop within weeks?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You are so full of absolute ****. Remember you said the clontarf works would be stopped within a few days as the public wouldn't stand for it? And you claim to have all this insider knowledge lol. Class A muppet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I stand by my record.

    Strand Road still looks like this, doesn't it?

    Salthill Prom still looks like this, doesn't it?

    The city centre measures will be cancelled - or go to Court, and so will Dun Laoghaire before it ever gets near a shovel in the ground.

    Battles are won and lost, but the war continues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    You stand by your record of fairview works being reversed? Clown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    Guinness can take a hike! Yes a hike around the prescribed motorway network out to the M50 on the road beside their factory and around to the port. They have no business rattling up the quays.

    They have no problem delivery a keg or two to every corner of this island in the most rural of places. They can bring their HGVs off our city streets. They are coining it in with their experience there and off Dubliners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    One question, and before you all hop on me, it is a genuine question.

    Why is the proposal to have the bus gates for 12 hours a day rather than 24 such a big deal? (I don't know if its Mon-Fri or 7 days a week).

    Surely being bus only from 7am to 7pm, would allow for the majority of those commuting for work.

    Mon-Fri would also allow for shoppers who wanted to drive into town on weekends.

    I think its a fair and reasonable compromise.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    I have a few reasons. The first is that satnav apps typically handle time-based restrictions poorly, often ignoring them completely sending motorists the wrong way.

    Secondly, people are a bit gormless when they’re driving. If they’re allowed make turns a certain times but not others, they’ll make those turns when they’re not allowed because then won’t even see the signs telling them otherwise.

    Not all people are gormless, lots are chancers. If restrictions end at 7pm, you’ll get people chancing their arm at 6:45 and at 6:30.

    Lastly and maybe most importantly, it removes the ability for the council to back-up the restrictions with physical infrastructure. If a turn is allowed at some times, the road layout must allow that turn at all times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Okay, I get your point about the turns.

    Thanks for the reply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭The Mathematician


    But the proposal (even the original one) would not stop anyone driving into town at any time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    That doesn't answer the question I asked.

    But it implies the answer is "so as to make things as inconvenient for drivers as possible at all times" - even when there is no need to.

    Full disclosure, I'm on this thread as not in favour of the plan, as a disabled driver. But I would be happy on a compromise on a reduction of the bus gates on the quays from 24 to 12 hours, Monday-Friday. with everything else left as per the original plan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭The Mathematician


    Absolutely not, the idea is to make things better for people traveling by bus. There is only a limited amount of road space, so surely it should be allocated for the more efficient modes of transport.

    I am often in town in the evenings and at weekends and the traffic can be even worse than at rush hours and certainly worse than on weekday afternoons, so if there were to be restricted hours they would have to be much greater than 7am to 7pm on Mondays to Friday. In fact, if the bus gate is not needed at some times due to low traffic, then I don't see that it would really inconvenience car drivers in any way, except for some very particular journeys.

    As a disabled driver, I would also suggest that you should be firmly in support of the scheme. If public transport is vastly improved then the people who can use it will use it, leaving more space for the people who have to use cars. Everyone will be a winner.

    Of course the long term plan should be to build a network of metro and Luas lines, but this sort of scheme is vital as a stopgap, otherwise everyone will be stuck in traffic. It always amazes me the number of people who own cars due to the 'freedom' they bring, but then then they say that they wouldn't go into town due to the traffic (of course things are different in the country but we are discussing Dublin here).



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Thanks for the reply, but I still do not see why the allocation of road space for buses has to be 24 hours a day, 7 days a week when buses don't even run 24 hours a day. I think 7am to 7pm is a very good compromise.

    I made my views on disabled drivers known earlier on the thread so I won't repeat them, other than I don't believe for one second there was ever a chance that currently pedestrianised areas would ever be reversed or ever expected that it would even be considered.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But the Dublin Bus service does run 24/7 on several arterial routes



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    With high enough passenger numbers to justify shutting off part of the quays to cars for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? I doubt it.

    Thanks for the reply, but I have my answer.

    Obviously no compromise is going to be good enough for some people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No.

    I see there is to be a protest on Monday evening at City Hall by this basket of deplorables. Get a job lads ffs



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    it will mean less cars and traffic in that part of town, which is a great thing, no?



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,771 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    It is a great thing if you are in that part of town, but some other part of town is worse. This is simply a land grad by those privileged enough to live in the central part of Dublin.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,856 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Resorting to making childish insults doesn't really strengthen your argument!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,286 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    nope it's a win for the working classes getting to their jobs by bus



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,753 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There will be the B, C, D and G Spines running along the Quays when BusConnects is finished. They are some of the busiest corridors in the city (Blanchardstown, Lucan, Crumlin Road and Ballyfermot), and will be high frequency from early morning till late at night - go and look at the loadings in the evenings on the 39/39a or the C Spine & G Spine and you'll see that they are very heavily used all day long.

    The re-routing of the D-Spine (Crumlin Road routes) from Dame Street will result in an additional 25 buses an hour using the Quays in either direction all day long.

    Each spine will operate 24/7 (the 39a and the routes on the C and G Spines already do). That in all likelihood will be around 15 buses per hour in each direction overnight along the Quays.

    As a previous poster said, people will often either through confusion or deliberate acts abuse situations like this where there are restricted operating hours. Having the measures operating 24/7 avoids that confusion and abuse.

    It's also not simply about giving buses more priority (making them more efficient and more attractive to use), but also about reducing the numbers of cars through the city centre, and making it a nicer place to be, and allowing for longer pedestrian crossing times at O'Connell Bridge through eliminating right turns.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭markpb


    That’s hilarious! A plan than mostly benefits bus passengers is clearly engineered to benefit the wealthy 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'm trying to make an argument, I'm trying to insult them.

    The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice?? Give me a piggin break.

    And the rest are just the usual tree huggers and crusties.

    I see Shakepeare has granted the Commuter Coalition a meeting anyway, keeping them on a string is no harm until he announces what he's doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,867 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    As an outside observer, posts like this (and several others like it from others here) do nothing to either further the argument or convince people that increased public transport focus is what's needed, even if it means inconveniencing them.

    It just comes across as throwing toys out of prams because the vote didn't go the way they think it SHOULD have. Yet of course, if it had, the same posters would be telling everyone that it was the will of the public etc…

    It's the local transport equivalent of the complete tantrums witnessed when Trump was declared in 2016. Love him or loathe him, the reactions were priceless in many quarters.

    What of course SHOULD happen here now is a return to the drawing board and consultation. WHY are people against it? What alternatives or compromises exist? The facts - regardless of whether some like it or not - are that public transport or "active travel" (such a nonsense marketing term if there ever was one) are neither practical nor desirable for a lot of people traveling into or through the city - especially those coming from maybe a county or two away because of the shortage of affordable property to buy or rent, coupled with an increase in employers insisting on a return to the office in part to justify the cost of the rents they are paying for those city centre locations.

    Personally I think WFH options should be the default for most office jobs unless an employer can justify otherwise. Making people travel to sit at a desk to do the same job they do at home is ridiculous in many cases.

    I also think it needs to be recognised that overcrowded, slow (in part because of the constant stop-start of too many bus stops), wandering routes, and antisocial (on some routes) elements of public transport aren't going to entice someone to give up the car and trying to beat them into submission is just going to cause more resistance and resentment.

    Improving and adding options like park and ride (Red Cow LUAS being the best example of what's there) to the busiest entry points of the M50 would also be worth looking at.

    Also recognising that the M50 is in itself a big part of the problem because of the spread out nature of the city. Someone living in Blanch but working in Sandyford has no other real options unless they want to add hours to the day travelling through the city.

    Similarly the congested mess between J7 and J10 causes huge problems because of the mix of residential, retail, and business locations over these few km.

    Fundamentally though, there's no easy solution to this but the answers need to factor in ALL the needs and elements, not just the "cars bad, public transport good" attitude that comes across a lot in these discussions and decisions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,018 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    If the argument for the bus gates is so the working classes can get to their jobs by bus, then I think 7am to 7pm is a perfectly adequate time frame to allow that. While some people may work later shifts in the city centre, I personally doubt there would be enough to warrant closing off all car traffic on the quays, before 7am and after 7pm, and the same with buses that will run (most likely empty) overnight.

    Making the bus gates 24 hours, is simply to inconvenience / discourage other users.

    As an aside, I also think having 24 hour bus gates it's unfair to those who live along the routes where all car traffic is going to be forcibly diverted too. I wonder were they consulted or considered, and if they were, were they another group whose opinions were just disregarded.

    Anyway I hope DCC see some sense. I've sent off my own emails.

    Fundamentally though, there's no easy solution to this but the answers need to factor in ALL the needs and elements, not just the "cars bad, public transport good" attitude that comes across a lot in these discussions and decisions.

    Well said, @_Kaiser_



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    If it's limited to 12 hours per day we cannot reclaim the space from the car lane to make much needed infrastructure upgrades. The quays will remain a dangerous place to cycle. At present anyone who is in any way nervous on a bike will not cycle along the quays - that needs to change. We need to make taking the bus or cycling to work a better option than driving. I say that as a driver and cyclist.

    The Dublin Transport Plan is clearly in the best interests of the city as a whole, even if it inconveniences some people (fewer than 2% of the people who travel on this route each day).



Advertisement