SA vs Ireland First Test 2024 - The World Champions vs The Best Team in the World

Was thinking about Lowe's screw up from the kick off. If the ball bounces in the field of play and then goes dead from a kick off, is it restarted with a scrum at half way? I thought the scrum back was only if it was in open play. I thought if it was from a kick off, it was a 5 metre scrum or goal line drop out.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong and mixing it up with something else. Any refs here know?

If the ball is kicked into the opponents’ in-goal without touching any player and an opponent grounds the ball without delay or it goes dead through in-goal, the non-kicking team has the option of having the kick retaken or a scrum.

If the ball is kicked into the kicking team’s own in-goal and is made dead by a defending player or it goes dead through in-goal, the non-kicking team is awarded a five-metre scrum.

Thanks. For some reason I thought it was something different from a kick off if it bounced in play first. No idea where I got that from.

No it was definitely something to do with touch in goal from a kick off. Maybe there was a trial law that was scrapped or something like that that I'm thinking of.

Just watched the game back after missing it live. A short summary would be that we were physically outmatched for most of the game, second best fitness-wise, and made too many errors.

There's always talk about POM, and I'm tired to death of defending him at this stage. Sure, his game isn't freakish athleticism and making line breaks by running over people - but that's not his game. His game is technically astute, and he shows up in big moments. At 13:50 in the game today, he gets back to a ruck and seals out a ruck after Osborne takes a high ball in the back field. If he doesn't get there and get such a low (arguably illegal) body position, South Africa are counter rucking us off that ball and attacking in our 22m. Similarly, his dark arts of grabbing Faf De Klerk on 40:50 means FdK can't get to the ruck to move the ball away, allowing Doris to get the turnover. He was busy in defence making tackles and I've seen him have far worse games for Ireland. Substitutions are pre-determined in the modern game and I don't really buy the whole "he can't last for longer than fifty minutes" line. With Baird on the bench covering backrow (i.e. covering 6), POM is the only one that's going to be taken off in that scenario.

Our best performers by far were Beirne and Doris. Beirne put in his usual huge shift of physicality, workrate, and being a turnover demon. Doris was outstanding ball in hand.

Thought Casey had a fine game. There were a few comments giving out about his speed of delivery in the first half, but I don't think there was any stage where he was particularly ponderous. You can only go as fast as your pack's workrate and ruckwork will allow. His kicking was mostly very good too (one poor exit clearance of a restart aside - which thankfully lead to nothing).

Lowe is unreal going forward and critical to the way we attack - but there's creeping signs of the old Lowe returning - some questionable defensive reads which thankfully weren't capitalised on and a few errors which, as one or two others pointed out, he gets away with because he has credit in the bank, but another newer, more inexperienced, or less reputable winger would've been crucified for.

I think JVDF was largely at fault for the first try - he shoots far too aggressively out of the line to try and shut down the attack while down numbers instead of trusting his inside drift and defending a bit softer. Doris is tracking hard on the inside, so if JVDF drifts and jockeys backwards a bit, we might lose 15 or 20m, but we won't concede the line break.

Crowley not great off the tea - but he's as defensively solid an out-half as you're going to come across. He got run at a lot today and took his man down every time. He's far more reliable than Carbery ever was in defence.

Osborne made the mistakes you'd expect a debutant to make (touching ball on kick at 9:00, a knock on or two) - but also had a really commanding performance under contestable high balls. His knowledge of the attacking system Ireland use needs to improve a bit - for example at 4:50 I feel he's very overeager to carry despite POM and Henshaw being available already. After Henshaw carries, he tries to run in the same lane as POM. If he holds his width a bit, there's loads of room left by KLA shooting in after POM gets the pass away. Instead, he's so tight he gets caught and can't get the ball away. It's a small thing which I imagine Keenan would've done on autopilot without thinking - but that'll come with time.

One thing that has flown under the radar a bit is our scrum dominance in the first half. Porter was uncharacteristically square in his scrummaging and we were getting the nudge on quite a bit. Unfortunately lost this when their bomb squad came on and Healy/Bealham took over from Porter/Furlong.

Overall, lots of work-ons. I think I'd give the starting XV (minus injuries) a chance to redeem themselves by starting next weekend - but I'd make a few changes on the bench.

I'd go for something like Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, McCarthy, Beirne, POM, JVDF, Doris, Murray, Crowley, Lowe, Aki, Ringrose, Nash, Osbourne | Herring, O'Toole, Jager, Ryan, Prendergast Sr., Blade, Frawley, Timoney. I wouldn't complain if Ryan (who had a good cameo) started ahead of McCarthy or Frawley/O'Brien instead of Osbourne. Izzy and Prendergast Sr. on the bench is a 50/50 too.

Not sure I agree Henshaw was a non factor, thought he was pretty strong. Lots of hits and strong carries.

I get the argument about POM’s game not ever being about “freakish athleticism” but I do think it’s a big factor now in our packs looking underpowered, because he’s playing a position where so many other teams do select freakish athletes.

If you think of traditional 6s of the past 10-15 years you’re talking about guys like Lawes, PSDT, Kaino, Juan Smith etc - guys who are all physical tone setters. POM is so much athletically poorer than the younger guys pushing for his shirt in Ireland too. I didn’t think he played well yesterday. I think the skill set you’re describing above is what I’d traditionally think of as an open side’s game, but he doesn’t seem to have the legs to play that game either.

Yeah, he’s obviously a great player who has had a great career.

I absolutely don’t think Baird is close to the finished article either - there are days when I look at him and think if only we could give him a brain transplant what a player he could be.

But, re POM, his physical limitations are becoming more and more evident as he ages (obviously) and are especially pronounced against the most physical of opponents like SA. To me, there probably wasn’t a position on the field yesterday where the distinction in physicality and performance was as pronounced as blindside between PSDT and POM.

O'Mahony of course will start and captain the side next week.....

But going forward into the Autumn Internationals and beyond its time to put him out to pasture....

Farrell asked POM to stay on and be captain for the SA tour before he heads off on his Lions break....

Easterby will then name Doris the new captain and POM will be phased out....

Lackluster strategy, lazy ideas, underwhelming performance, distracting from serious in-house deficiencies.…. but enough about the Leinster fans predictably slating POM… 😉

I actually thought we played well today, and can be optimistic about next week. Scrum was solid (first half obviously). Doris and McCarthy were excellent, Casey had a great game, Osborne settled after a couple of early wobbles and then looked at ease out there. vdF had a very good game too, best in a while?

Above all though, we really matched their power. A true sign of that was how well we defended in our own 22. Their tries were not from battering us to submission, but from a few freak/class moments out wide (for the first two) and then the replacements in the scrum capitulating late on. And Boks needed a few very kind marginal calls from Pearse to keep the score in their favour.

The scrum (backups) is the primary concern for next week, as has been the case for a while now. We might as well throw TOT in the #17 jersey? Could it be much worse?

The other is Crowley's place-kicking. Granted, Pollard missed a sitter or two by his standards, so maybe there was some weather impacting things. But it's happening too often now, both in red and in green.

I've a very sneaky feeling we might see Blade start, Murray to close…

Yeah that's a balanced enough take to be fair - especially since I'd agree that there are other candidates for captaincy at this stage who should offer sufficient leadership and good enough decision making in the heat of the moment (Beirne, Doris, Ryan off the bench).

I'd still look at starting the same XV next weekend for a shot at revenge (theres enough talking points and bitter moments from the game that hopefully we can give them a NZ style backlash) and if it becomes that case that the Boks definitively best us up a stick and that we are lacking in physicality, then we can look at changes for Autumn.

In terms of the question you ask, I think you already know the answer why

Anyway we need another option at 10, for me it's not Frawley and if they brought Predergast then play him, it's going to be Crowley/Predergast in the future so if he is doing well why not do it now?

I wouldn’t change Crowley, I’d back him to go again, and in any event would feel it’s likely Frawley will be needed elsewhere because of other injuries to Osborne and Henshaw.

My team next week would be: (assuming Osborne, Henshaw, Aki, Casey, Sheehan all unavailable due to injury)

J O’Brien, Nash, Ringrose, McCloskey, Lowe, Crowley, Murray, Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, Baird, Van der Flier, Doris.

Reps: Herring, O’Toole, Jager, McCarthy, Izuchukwu, Blade, Frawley, Stockdale

Hold on there. That makes no sense. How can you be "unsure on Baird" then say he did evrything better than POM?

"brought way more bite with aggressive tackles and offered a ball carrying option."

Frawley at 15 would be a weakness for me. He's got little pace and hasn't been very good. He's nowhere near the level of an international 15. If Casey is out, Murray starts. Blade is another weakness, imo.

I'd go with Larmour on the wing. We need someone who can turn that defense. Nash doesn't look to be a player who can beat defenders with footwork.

I hope Farrell give Cian Prendergast a chance. He's more than capable of the physical play and would be a good ball carrier.

Pearce was on one yesterday. Felt he was very snippy towards us in communications.