Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

"They therefore need to be subsidized by us, the taxpayer"

Never heard such BS in my life. What about the Croation staff member in my local Cafeand the tens of thousands like him, how does he manage without any subsidies by the irish state as he is a legal EU worker?But these other lads from pakistan need to be put up in hotels?

The Irish Times published a piece on Saturday that reported that developing world diseases were rife in the expanding, predominantly migrant homeless population - far from the image of health. Obviously these issues relate primarily to asylum seekers rather than the broader migrant population but this is the refugee thread, so I’m not sure why other forms of migration were raised in the first place.

This thread is primarily a refugee and asylum thread rather than an immigration thread, at least that was the impression I had based on the title and the majority of the discussion. At present between 50% - 70% of asylum applicants in the State are secondary movements from other EU Member States, in addition to that incredible statistic, the majority are from countries of origin with low acceptance rates, this is appalling and marginally less supportive language from the Taoiseach on immigration will have little practical impact. Policies of deterrence in line with the Danish model are required.

Reading the thread, it remains primarily a thread focused on asylum. Repeatedly commenters have recognised the value of skilled migration in in-demand areas of the economy. To say that certain types of migration add value is uncontroversial, a large percentage of the population believe that, a large percentage of the population equally believe that immigration is excessive and that asylum in particular is incredibly excessive, especially considering the circumstances. What the majority find unfathomable is the widespread manipulation and incompetence of the asylum system, not skilled migration, and it seems to me that the person your talking to has mentioned those points in relation to asylum, so focusing on skilled migration seems misguided.

I have no idea how many asylum seekers coming here are 'genuine' or merely fleeing extreme poverty (how dare they).

Nobody else on this thread has any kind of reliable figure either that I've seen.

If somehow our immigration system could magically determine who was 'genuine' every time, with no scope for error, we'd still have to deal with the people who will try to come here to escape poverty. If anything it could be more difficult if people came undocumented, with all the consequences that would bring.

How many should we take? I might as well say 7, for all the relevance it has. What I think will happen is that there'll be an attempt to step up deportations, and approx 90% of those arriving will still end up living here. They'll be working and living alongside us, their kids will go to school with our kids, and they will be part of our communities and lives.

If enough people are upset about this we could try going for more extreme solutions a la Denmark or Hungary. These come with a multitude or risks and no guarantees of effectiveness, despite what the people looking for your votes will tell you come the next election.

As for how it ends, I can't predict the future but I suppose the worst outcome probably ends with a dissolved EU. Maybe less immigration because we're no longer a top-tier destination, think Ireland in the 80's. We could also see security threats coming from the militias the EU are currently funding to stop immigration. Historically funding militia's to do the dirty work hasn't worked out so well.

https://apnews.com/article/united-nations-tripoli-ap-top-news-international-news-immigration-9d9e8d668ae4b73a336a636a86bdf27f

The more positive outlook sees the EU working with nations in the Global South, perhaps trade deals and common market entry in lieu of human rights improvements. According to the current MD of the IMF, tackling poverty in the Global South is actually key to our own economic growth in the next century. So to me this looks like the direction to go for a multitude or reasons.

https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2024/03/08/sp031424-kings-college-cambridge-kristalina-georgieva

The difference being we have agreed as a nation to treat EU migrant workers same as irish, so they qualify for HAP just like Irish. I don't recall the agreement of the nation to subsidize the labour of Ahmed from Pakistan by putting him up in a hotel.

I am not sure what you are getting at.

Are you talking about Ahmed from Pakistan who is an international protection applicant, or are you talking about the Ahmed who has been granted residency?

If it's the first instance, then Ahmed is legally entitled to accommodation under the International Protection Act 2015. If it's the latter case and Ahmed is now a resident of this state, then he's entitled to HAP and any other entitlement that you and I qualify for.

If you believe this then I don’t see how you could doubt that people would want to implement the Danish model.

You really think that putting hundreds of AS/IPAs (double the local population) into a hotel in a locality with barely any resources and with zero consultation is democracy in action? Especially when Harris claimed a couple of months ago that they were moving away from using hotels (and enriching hoteliers).

Denmark's approach is not in compliance with EU law, I've already shared links to support this.

I don't know why they haven't been penalised as Hungary have. It might be due to the specifics of the Danish agreement, or several other reasons.

But the more immediately tangible risk is a split to the EU brought on by go it alone immigration policies.

The EU already has extremely hard deterrent policies, that they don't adhere to the Danish policies directly I suspect is more to do with the Danish approach simply not fitting at an EU wide level. Denmark pushes those people seeking asylum to it's relatively wealthy Western neighbours. The EU doesn't really have a relatively wealthy Western neighbour. Being more unattractive than Russia is not an option for obvious reasons.

You asked “how does he (the Croatian cafe worker) manage without any subsidies by the irish state as he is a legal EU worker”? I pointed out that he’s probably not managing without subsidies, that he’s probably in fact claiming HAP, as he’s entitled to do so as an EU citizen.

Sharing posts from this guy? Hah, yeah.

Maybe we shouldn't adhere to all the rules and perhaps challenge them