RTÉ Investigates Girls in Green

Another new Irish sports scandal, and yet George Gibney is still walking around a free man.

He can deny all he likes but Collins has some questions to answer.

Absolutely.

Harrowing viewing last night - you’d have to wonder how those poor women actually played football when you see the context of what the coaches were “up to”.

Utterly sleazy carry on.

Drinking and partying every weekend and coaches going home with players - so inappropriate.

Did these men actually have an interest in coaching or was it all about access to young women for them??

I fear - mainly because of the length of time, and perhaps lack of evidence (talk of missing or non existent records) since the allegations - no criminal proceedings will arise.

Could be the next "Me too" movement. I'd say a lot of people looking over their shoulders waiting for the knock on the door.

When I heard the part about the black plastic bags to lose weight and players being called fat. I immediately thought of Paul Gascoigne "Gazza". He had to do that to lose weight. Even back when he was a young player for Newcastle, Jack Charlton put pressure on him to lose weight. That was the done thing regardless of gender.

As for the inappropriate relationships between players and manager with an age gap etc, it always seems blurred among the different genders. Vera Pauw (Former women's Dutch international and Irish manager) married her coach Bert van Lingen with a 17 year age difference.

Plus these days there is the issue of same sex relationships between teammates, which can result in problems on and off the pitch particularly if they break down.

My sister played on a very successful inter county football team during the 90s, I would know nearly all her teammates.

I would also know the men involved on the coaching management side.

I never heard a word about anything like this. Keep in mind many women/girls played inter county at 15/16 but there would always have been a cohort of older women.

I think the set up here were most of the women were strangers to each other which would be different to a club/county set up left them a little exposed.

Also their social/employment status might have left them a little more vulnerable to being exploited.

For many years I trained in the same ground with the men's team, and there was always a divide separation. i.e. the gaa field wasn't a dating opportunity.

In college, with younger teams since I've stopped playing I've never heard of anything like this. Typically there would always be much older women involved in a coaching/selection role which also probably helped to keep predators at bay.

It has probably happened over the years with gaa but I never saw it

I think the abuse perpetrated by the Catholic Church in Ireland shows exactly how small towns and villages could house and in some cases protect abusers. Given the close association between the church and the GAA I won’t be surprised if stories emerge as a result of the fallout from the FAI case. Predators were involved in any activity that for them close to victims.

This is an old article but it’s well worth a read to see how communities and the great and the good worked to protect abusers - https://m.independent.ie/news/the-bishop-comiskey-controversy/26056900.html

During this era, the Irish Sports Councils standard response to anyone raising issues about any difficult topic was that they didnt want any "noise in the system" (their expression).

With this sort of attitude coming from the top, its not surprising that we've had a succession of scandals in Irish sport. Nobody, except those causing "noise in the system" feared intervention or cuts to funding for bad behaviour in their organisation.

The GAA has safe guarding in place and child protection procedures for a long time.

Soccer is no where still at that level from what I can see. I've kids with two different soccer clubs and they would regularly look for helpers from the sidelines which certainly doesn't happen with the GAA club.

we here don’t know what happened, if anything.

but as I see it the greatest obstacle to any criminal investigation leading to arrests and convictions would be the passage of time.

More than a quarter of a century has passed since the alleged incidents.

So judges and jury’s and defence teams would be VERY aware as to how unreliable recollections of details and events would be after that time. A competent defence lawyer could have a field day with any inconsistency or hesitancy or lack of being absolute in the evidence given.

Also who bears the financial burden ? The accusers the alleged perpetrators or the state ie. us citizens ? I’ve no idea but would like to know.

My problem is not people seeking justice, if they’ve been wronged, it’s waiting two and a half decades, over a quarter of a century to look for it……

if nothing to do with justice, yet you believe “at least one account will likely to be found criminal”..

Bit of a contradiction…

They have enabled themselves to be disadvantaged by doing nothing in the intervening years.

I’m not blaming victims, I’m simply making the point that not doing this sooner, and waiting over a quarter of a century to do it will put them at a disadvantage and wasn’t their best move. That’s called critical observation yes, but not blaming as you allege.

There is absolutely no victim blaming in my post whatsoever, I’m detecting rather an over emotive reaction by yourself though above. I’ll quote any of your posts, you don’t get to dictate as to how I engage in discourse on boards… Stick me on ignore if you don’t wish to see my posts.

As someone who was starting work in early 90’s, harassment was rife. I remember one lady whocomplained about a dodgy gropey client, and the boss was almost talking her out of believing it happened, as he did not want to lose the horrible hands on customer.

As a teenager, I recall a friend concerned about a dodgy uncle who had come home from abroad. She did not want ti be left with him, so I was brought along to go to Dunnes Stores.. He kept asking if we had boyfriends and what we did with them.

we went into a newsagents where a young staff member was putting prices on magazines with a pricing gun (anyone remember the prices on things) Anyway, she was bent over doing the pricing and the dodgy uncle ran right you behind her and grabbed her arse! The girl got such a fright that she nearly jumped through the roof. Your man was there laughing. We would have been 16 and he was early 30’s maybe. You just dodged the gauntlet of stuff like that.

Don’t get me started on working as a lounge girl as a teen- don’t know who was worse- staff or customers. That was scary.

That is a genuinely frightening attitude to have about child safety. It’s like the attitude that surrounded priests for years - the ‘that couldn’t happen here’ type of response to abuse.

Explain to me how child protection protocols keeps abusers away from the GAA? I’m vetted for a number of sports including GAA - not having a criminal record and doing a child protection course does not mean automatically I’m not a risk to children. I’ve seen absolute scum bags in the GAA being allowed to coach junior teams. There’s a coach involved in a team close to us who has been in and out of jail and last year got a year ban from the GAA. He’s now coaching under 16 girls football (LGFA, not GAA). My own girls won’t play matches when he’s on the sideline because of the level of abuse he gives them (ah but sure he’s passionate about the parish).

Take a look at this guy - https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/swimming-coach-who-filmed-girls-changing-jailed-for-three-years-1554452.html

I was also been involved in swimming for a long time from local to national level with my kids. I’ve done the same courses as this guy did. Child protection in swimming is much more stringent that the GAA and yet child abuse still happened. I’ve been abroad with kids swim teams where teams and coaches from the continent laughed at the extent of our child protection measures. We once shared a pool with a German squad that had one male swimmer about 13 years old and one male adult coach, with the rest being young girls. The male coach and the 13 year old boy shared a hotel room. They seen nothing wrong with this. At the same time we had to have an adult on deck at all times to monitor coach / swimmer interactions and coach behaviour. Coaches were not allowed to have lunch with kids unless a team manager was also present. Is child abuse more prevalent in Ireland?

I'm not subscribed but I did catch the name before it was obscured with ads. I remember this nasty fcuker alright . . another swimming coach. This is what Wikipedia states about the case.

"On 4 September 1992, Frank McCann killed his wife, Esther McCann (née Leonard), and his eighteen-month-old foster-daughter Jessica McCann (who was also his biological niece) when he set fire to their family home in Rathfarnham, Dublin, Ireland. The couple had been trying to adopt Jessica, but the process had been repeatedly delayed, due to reports to the adoption agency that Frank McCann, an Olympian swimming coach, had fathered a child with a seventeen-year-old student of his who had special needs. Fearing for the damage to his reputation if it came out, McCann resolved to murder his wife and foster-child. Found guilty of both of their murders in 1996, McCann is currently serving a life sentence in Arbour Hill Prison."

It goes on in plenty of other countries too though. US Gymnastics for example is just one. That German coach is an accident waiting to happen. All it takes is one innocent remark and you are finished. I can guarantee that wherever you have poor governance and poor protocols in place it just makes it easier for the unthinkable to happen and go undetected.

Ireland isn't perfect at all. You will never be able to prevent all abuses from happening but the minimum should be stopping the obvious criminals from getting involved with children and vulnerable adults.

As part of a coaching team for underage camogie I will not take a session without a minimum of one other coach present and a designated female in attendance. You just don't do it.

It's unlikely to spread into GAA since female gaelic games are run by two women led organisations LGFA and the camogie association.