Home heating automation

Sounds painful, especially as we don't know if it's a plumber or a sparks who quoted, and what tool he'll use!

Thanks deezell

The quote is 2580 total ! Includes installation and wiring of V3+ HW and heating controls and thermostat(on screwfix for 116 rite now)/tado 8 smart TRVs(Manual TrVs already installed)/ wiring of motor valves which control HW and Radiator water flow into tado system.

Dont have zones capability as plumbing is dated.

Attached are the pictures of TRVs, timer control for boiler and new motor valve in Hotpress two stories above from boiler. I am also told it has to be wired for HP to kitchen. All this (valve and TRVs)was done as part of boiler upgrade(WB condense 4700) done recently.

I posted before I seen your reply. You have two new zone valves fitted, left unwired. The Tado receiver needs to be installed here, wired to switch the HW and CH valves. The relays in the valves then combine in a little junction box to supply a single live wire to the boiler (in the kitchen) to fire it for either zone. That's what you get for the €820. This is a two zone system once it's wired up correctly using the little €20 junction box.

You could add the TRVs later once you have the app and are familiar with the seperate HW/CH control. I honestly don't know if there is €750 still available for heating controls, grants like these turned wiring jobs of a few €hundred in €thousands Imo.

.

That will do it, I see 6 ticks. I still think €820 exorbitant for plugging in the extension kit, hooking it to the two valves, and running a light twin cable down to the boiler. The last bit can be a pain though, drilling holes through walls etc. This EPH transmitter/receiver kit is well worth the €80 or thereabouts, it will wirelessly link the zone valve relays to the boiler, no wiring in between. This is it here.

https://www.heatmerchants.ie/tr1-tr2-rf-transceiver-pack-u16492

Correct, if someone gets sniffy about the electrical connection into the boiler and starts going all RGI about it, you can site the TR in place of the timer. Any electrician can connect the electrics to a boiler though, there's no gasworks involved, but these days...

Given that you have TRV valve bodies, that quote, to be blunt, is outrageous. Without digressing, this is completely a function of the grant system. Lads know you have to get a form from them - and they are making a fortune from it. SEAI should just transfer all the grant money directly to the installers at this stage - it's worth nothing to a homeowner as the installers are just essentially billing you for it.

Grants are a honeytrap. Installers just up their prices to adsorb them.

Connecting the boiler call wires, aka the call for heat, the switched live (SL), or just a volt free relay normally open contact pair are all names for roughly the same thing. Connection to the electrical terminals inside the boiler cover is a simple task. There's nothing particularly expert or hazardous about doing this (though there's an English sparks on YouTube who was nearly fried because this connection was done by... the RGI.) Any technically qualified electrician, electrical technician, engineer, or plumber/gas installer with basic domestic mains training would know what he's doing. One important thing is that the live being sent to call the boiler via its SL terminal, should come from the same breaker as the permanent live which powers the boiler. If using the wireless relay, the live into this should be from the same source, and after the boiler wall switch. In many instances the live is just fed out of the boiler to the relay volt free terminals and back to the call for heat or SL terminal, which is the safest setup.

The hazard I mentioned on the YT channel occurred when the YT sparks isolated the kitchen mains to do some alterations, but the boiler SL was coming from an upstairs hot press circuit that wasn't turned off. This fed through the boiler SL terminal and back out through its isolated mains neutral connection, leaving quite a tickle on the wires which had been isolated from the main.

Replacing the timer with the EPH receiver will safely replicate exactly the same wiring which is already there, and you'll have both Live and Neutral to power the EPH, as well as the SL via it's relay to call the boiler. A really simple job for a sparks, as is the wiring of the zone valves to the Tado extension kit controller. This is made easier by using this little wiring centre box to terminate and link the wires from the zone valves, the Tado control and the SL out to a boiler or the EPH wireless TR1link. Its just a terminal strip with 12 invidual terminals.

Thanks. One last question how does the thermostat play a role in this setup ? Will it sense and control both CH and hot water temp? or just CH. I mean will the system not also control the boiler temp and hence water or just CH ? or the setup just fires it on off only?

If you don't already have one, a cylinder stat is a €20 device with 20 minutes installation, which will interrupt the timed HW event when the cylinder reaches a set temperature at a fixed point, say, 60° and two thirds of the way down the side. As the zone valves are in the hot press, its just a case of sending the HW SL from the Tado receiver via the cylinder stat and back to the HW zone valve. You can set your timer roughly then for time blocks to top up HW.

With modern low loss deep insulated cylinders, there's not much saving in trying to heat HW just prior to demand by using timers. Unused HW will remain hot for far longer than the old days of bare copper cylinders with their 'saggy underpants' lagging jackets! Heres the most common contact cylinder stat in use. It's ideal for foam encased cylinders, you just cut out a little foam square to let it contact the cylinder wall. Heres one from Screwfix, €19.

Well i have got the Tado thermostat kit from screwfix today. Still deliberating a DIY or not.

Main concern is wiring diagrams between - Motorised valves/HW cylinder/Tado receiver
And then onto boiler of-course 😃. Assume this is S type system as have two valves.

Too ambitious or just get someone to do it. Thanks

thanks the valve has blue/orange/yellow/brown/grey wires !

Here is tado S plan

And just to avoid confusion, the top row numbered terminals of the connecter strip are connected to the bottom, so the blue wires on 2 top and 2 bottom are connected.

The wiring box, WC1, from EPH is ideal, see up in post #4564, youll get this in Heatmerchants, as well as the TR1TR2 transceiver. They have a trade counter, sometimes you can blag a trade price. The wiring box has 12 links, it can be used for 3 zones. Check prices online also. The coneecting strip inside is just a standard two connector strip, the diagram doesn't clearly show that theyre linked, thats all I was saying, top and bottom terminals are the same connector.

According to them it's still supported. I guess it will be degraded over time. With a V3 wireless starter kit only €117 in Screwfix, its not like having an unsupported laptop or phone that cost a couple of grand suddenly bring redundant.

The V3 works directly even without a server if you have a broadband outage, as the bridge can be accessed via your local area network with Home kit and other software. I doubt it'll go offline for a long long time.

upto 40% if u order on uk site in GBP..works at 47 per piece for set of 8

Though I'm getting £47 each on UK site (~€55), not €47.

DIY heating home automation will always save you on materials, but all the integration and especially raspberry pi use would leave most people cold, but as you say, you could probably run the temperature sensors to control the valves from your phone, set up scripts etc. It's great fun until SWMBO tries to use it. Then, to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum (Jurrasic Park), first the shouting, and then the screaming and the running away starts!

Motorised valves are a minimum of €65 retail, more like €80-100 for sturdy stuff. Plumbers may have a trade source under €50 for the really cheap generics, but including iinstallation for a €100 each is dreamland, I can't imagine a plumber doing a two valve install parts and labour for €200, especially if it involves the subsequent zone valve relay wiring to provide S plan firing of the boiler, but this is seperate from whatever automation you use to switch the valves, and indeed control the boiler. There's more than one way to skin a cat as the old non pc saying goes.

And...

So it looks like Tado are still treating the Irish Market as part of the UK. Though I got that offer from Tado as an email, and clicked right through to the checkout, it's not offering Ireland as an option to deliver. This is despite the link in the email going to an English language site, tado.com/all-en. If however you go to tado.com/ie-en, the default for a Google search for Tado Ireland, everything is peachy until you try to buy anything, and you are dumped on the UK shop, everything in £. I've complained to Tado about this before, I can't stand the Idea of being treated as outside the EU, and part of poxy Brexit UK. The UK price of course is greater in € than that available to EVERY country except Ireland listed in the checkout page of the email link, even allowing for an extra 3% VAT (is VAT 20% in the entire EU except us? I must check). it's €2-3 more expensive per TRV, not much, but it's the principle of the thing. We should not be forced to use a UK base and £ for EU purchases

The plumber just physically installed the motorised valves, with no wiring or connecting to anything else. He basically just replaced manual valves with the motorised. He did it while he was here for something else so I'm not exactly sure how much they were but I thought I remember him saying they were €100 each , but maybe they were more. It was a few years ago.

Don't think they are very expensive ones, they look like they are €65 in screwfix, so the €100 does seem cheap.

strange.. if i pay using revolut in gbp uk site its cheaper than paying in € on IE site.

So it works cheaper i guess and it does deliver to ireland

The tax take varies depending on which delivery country you select, Ireland or UK but the price with tax stays at £188.99.

Make sure you're not selecting the economy version with no led display of temperature.

The thermostat stat acts as the physical relay to call the boiler and fire it. The smart TRVs open the radiator valve but have no wired connection to the boiler, but are wirelessly connected to the thermostat (or its receiver if it is also wireless). Tado TRVs reduced by 35% at the moment, you will also need a wired or wireless thermostat starter kit.

That's pretty mean. I only got the Email on the 7th, tried to order on the 8th, but the shop site didn't list Ireland, but listed every other EU country. Price for 4 TRV's was €208 across the board, and you could see the different VAT take simply by changing the country destination. I should have sent it to family in Netherlands who will be visiting soon. 2 miserable days for the offer. Not to worry, it will repeat. Starter kits are top value in Screwfix still.

IFTTT have really screwed up with their pricing and their "legacy customers" v Pro v Pro+.

Wouldn't be surprised to see this more and more and it be a snowball effect. Sucks as well since they actually did a lot of stuff better than Google and Amazon.

so buying from EU is better than UK due to opentherm for starter kit ? There is an offer on Amazon and one of the friends wants to buy ? Thanks.

Its a boiler with hot water tank so not sure if modulation/opentherm is at play ? This is the datasheet

https://www.worcester-bosch.ie/support/literature/download/6721874147