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House extension adaption grant

  • 08-07-2024 8:30pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭


    Hi all

    Just a query about housing adaption grants for the elderly. I have elderly relatives, who were awarded a 30,000 housing adaption grant for a downstairs bedroom bathroom extension.

    Just wondering if anyone has any experience in these and what kind of time frame is involved. Also, the builder quotation was 52,000, which leaves around 22,000 to pay, seems a bit high but that's probably the price in the current climate.

    They are in 2 minds as to whether to go ahead with it or not, so just enquiring if anyone has had these kind of extensions built and were they happy with the results etc

    Thanks



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,463 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    On a personal note one of my sisters availed of this grant as did the in-laws a number of years ago and given the medical conditions involved they could never have managed without the ground floor extensions. Professionally I have planned loads of these and got to know the clients on a semi-personal basis and every single one were full of praise for the end product.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Thanks. Yea it's a ground floor extension, with railings outside etc, they both struggle on stairs and paths outside house. Do they need an architect first? I think the builder told them there was no need for one.

    How long does it take to build them? Maybe 2-3 months or so?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    To get the grant they would have having to prepare drawings already.

    They will need a professional to sign off compliance for fund release.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Thnk it was just the builders quotation that was asked for. Maybe they need an architect also



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    How did the builder know what to price for if there are no drawings?

    I've been involved with plenty of these from a design and 'sign off' point of view.

    Never ever seen one done without a drawing. There should be an occupational therapist report to be complied with as well.

    Post edited by sydthebeat on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Yea the occupational therapist report was sent in with application. The application was successful so they're deciding now whether to go ahead with the extension or not. Builder has given quotation, he was already out checking the house.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    well as to your question of "whether to go ahead with it or not"

    i certainly wouldn't be committing to spend €22,000 without known what i am going to end up with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Yea I have told them similar. Wouldn't be spending that amount unless seen the final drawings of it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    The vat from builders quote was around 6000e, can this be reclaimed after extension is completed, or is it hard to claim back



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    No you can't claim it back.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,785 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Why would you be able to claim back the builders VAT?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,387 ✭✭✭phormium


    We did it years ago now for my father, does the extension need planning permission? That delayed us for months, builder of course said it wasn't needed but then again he's not the planning expert!

    Definitely needed drawings and yes there was extra 30k in ours on top of grant but understandable as we had added an extra small room to the bedroom/bathroom design. You need the money to complete it first as the grant isn't paid until it's completed and approved by council.

    It was a great job in the finish up but good architect (which cost around 1,500 back then) and good builder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Builder said it won't need planning permission, very renowned building company who do them regularly.

    Does the grant not be paid until builders paid? The forms only asked can you afford the remaining balance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,463 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    You can opt to have the grant paid directly to the builder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 602 ✭✭✭shane b


    My in-laws got this done about 2 years ago. Cost was just under 50K. My in laws had the 20k saved and My wife and her 2 siblings chipped in with the remaining 30k until the grant came through.

    Planning permission was needed as the extension was put on the side of the house so would be visible from the road. They looked at a design to the back that didnt need planning but it would have meant building to the rear of the kitchen and sharing the main bathroom. It wasnt a workable long term plan. There was an architect involved too.

    One of the big misses that happened was the builders quote didnt include the sanitary ware or the tiling. Basically my in-laws walked in 1 day and asked wheres the toilet/shower and was told its not included. My in-laws had to go buy the bathroom ware themselves last minute. The architect didnt cop it in the initial quote either.

    2 years on now and there have been no issues and they are happy with the outcome.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    it’s up to you to prepare those drawings. Not the builder.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Builder doesn’t determine this. Your professional does. The one signing the grant forms and the payment forms.

    Builder can tell you the stars, nothing happens to him once it goes wrong. The home owner is ultimately responsible for compliance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    We got this in 2021. My advice is to let the builder know in clear English that he will be waiting for the councils contribution of 30k before it is finished. Also you will need an Engineer to certify before the grant is paid. I doubt an Engineer will certify it if it's not planing compliant.

    You can claim VAT back on the full amount. So your contribution and the 30K from the grant.

    All in all the builder is aware it's a grant job so should be absolutely willing to wait until the council process the grant. It took them about 4 weeks from the time I sent in the Engineers certification to pay the grant. They will pay you. Not the builder. You will also need a valid TCC.

    GET AN ENGINEER THOUGH. THAT IS VITAL.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,785 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    If the ask is to certify that it complied with building regulations. That’s all that’s relevant. Engineering can’t refuse to certify because it’s not planning compliant.

    Depending on the nature of works. I’d be more inclined to get an architectural professional. Work involve is more architectural in nature than engineering scope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    This ground floor extension is at the back of house, a council engineer was already out checking house few months ago. Builder said dont need planning permssion



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  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    hi Gusser

    can you please show where you can claim vat back for the builders costs?

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/vat/documents/form-vat61a.pdf

    shows its only claimable for aids and appliances



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    neither the councils engineer nor the builder have the responsibility to say whether an extension is exempt of not.

    there are more conditions to comply with than just floor area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I'm not sure what you mean by builders vat. If the entire extension is costing 55K along with the 30K grant then you claim the VAT on 55K. Not just your contribution of 25K. I was trying to claim the vat on the portion I paid and Revenue told me to claim it on the entire sum paid to the builder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Take from the Citizens info website:

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money-and-tax/tax/tax-credits-and-reliefs-for-people-with-disabilities/vat-refunds-on-aids-and-appliances-used-by-people-with-disabilities/

    Housing adaptations

    If you are having your home improved or adapted to make it more
    accessible, you may be able to claim a refund of VAT paid on the cost of
    installation and adaptation work. You may also qualify for a grant,
    such as the Housing Adaptation Grant for People with a Disability, the Mobility Aids Grant Scheme or the Housing Aid for Older People Scheme. Read more about housing grants and schemes.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    that what i mean.

    if the contract price is €55k incl VAT, thats the builders VAT.

    im wondering under what section of revenue can you claim back that VAT? i havent yet found any mechanism which allows that, only schemes which allow vat to be claimed on applicants, fittings etc.

    it would be very useful information for me to have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    It's 3 or 4 years since I claimed it but I did it online on my Revenue account. I just uploaded the final invoice and stamped it. There will be a section on you Revenue account for vat refunds. Revenue are decent to work with and will usually steer you too. They will pay it no questions asked.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just a though?

    was this done under the Home Renovation Incentive (HRI) scheme which allowed you to reclaim the 13.5% builders vat back??



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ive seen that, but none of those schemes mentioned show that you can claim back the builders vat. #

    im just trying to find out the name of the scheme which allows it, so i can advise clients when it arises.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    No. Housing adaptation grant.

    It doesn't matter though. Any renovations which are aimed at making the house more accessible for a person with a disability can qualify for a vat refund.

    We also sent in the Occupational therapists report as supporting documentation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    It doesn't have to be a scheme. It can be any works that are carried out to improve accessibility for disabled people or other conditions.



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Any renovations which are aimed at making the house more accessible for a person with a disability can qualify for a vat refund.

    i fully accept this, im just trying to find where this is included for.

    Its not in the housing adaptation grant documentation, ive been though enough application forms to know this:

    https://assets.gov.ie/119595/fb68af61-2429-414e-8f61-95ddc380f8ec.pdf

    it specifically says "It does not cover the VAT cost of the work. You can reclaim (get back) the VAT from Revenue after you have paid for the work (see www.revenue.ie for more information)."

    the issue i have is i cannot find anything on the revenue.ie site which allows for it.

    i will contact revenue directly and revert back here when i get an update.

    thanks for the replies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Housing adaption grant for people with disability. Think you can claim back the vat, when jobs completed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Go to you myaccount on revenue.ie.

    Erepayments

    Make a cliam

    Tick the VAT box and hit continue

    Form 61A

    you then get an options to tick a box which says " Does this claim relate to building works"



  • Subscribers Posts: 42,004 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    excellent thanks. i found it in the 61A form

    "The provisions of the Order extend to works carried out on homes to adapt them to make them more accessible for persons with disabilities. The provisions do not apply to the actual construction of a home but would apply, for example, to certain alterations or adaptations which would be necessary to meet the particular needs of the person with the disability."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,785 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Thanks. That is good info to have. Also covered below.

    https://assets.gov.ie/119595/fb68af61-2429-414e-8f61-95ddc380f8ec.pdf

    the grant covers up to 95% of the cost, and you claim back Vat at 13.5%, at first I thought it created an opportunity to pay 5% and claim back 13.5%. But at a closer look. It seems like the grant is ex-vat only. Which makes more sense.

    If 52k I the total cost. 95% of the ex-vat is well over the 30k limited approved. So should get it all. And then can claim back the 6185 Vat. Out of pocket is <16k



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I got a 30K grant. The overall costs of the work for the disability part of the extension was 46K inc Vat. So we claimed back 5541.71



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    So they can claim back the 6000e vat after the work is completed and paid for?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Lads, thanks a million for this discussion. We've just been through the grant & extension process for our in-laws to add a downstairs bedroom. Works are finished and final payment is being transferred over tomorrow. Knowing the heel-tapping joy that any VAT refund will bring my Scots Father in law no end of joy😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Just wondering, how long did it take to do? And was house liveable in during the works?



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭the14thwarrior


    While you don't need an architure, they can be both useful and expensive. Useful if they can provide a drawing etc. (although not needed) and expensive when they look at a property and add it nice things like they are on a show on TV - not covered by the grant. and the council won't care - the only thing the council will be looking at it is the OT report - if the works are not in compliance they won't pay. The key items are the sanitaryware once the room sizes and turning space are completed - DOC M packs are not allowed under most grant schemes so please don't get them, and make sure the builder understands this.

    Its not a McDonalds accessible toilet with a bird size sink smacked beside the toilet so you can't get up; the drop down rails should be long, and no need to dislocate your shoulder reaching them. People get stuck on lots of stuff - but you need to be able to help someone up from the toilet and have a shower not too big/not too small and preferably not a wet room that will make the whole room a slip hazard if not done correctly.

    I'd say 52,000 was quite cheap considering two rooms and I would be asking if the flooring, tiling and other items are included.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    You're asking a how long is a piece of string question. The answer from any one person including myself will vary based on factors such as type of house, detached, semi-d, terrace, townhouse and so on. The scope of any groundworks needed before extension cam start.

    From beginning of grant application to finish and handover in our case began in late 2022. The grant application was quick with great Comms from the Westmeath CoCo. We engaged the services of an Arch Tech to design and spec the extension and take care of planning permission as the extension was to front and side, along with ensuring it met the disability requirements for access and shower/bathroom. Final handover was 2 months ago.

    The house was livable during the entirety apart from week or so when the doorway connecting extension and main house were cut through. The in-laws went on holiday for that week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 461 ✭✭buzzing147


    Yea I understand, what I'm asking is how long the contractor took to build it, they are at a stage now where work might be commencing soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,785 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    That’s a very scaremongering view. An architect can’t add “nice thing like they are in a show” behinds the owners back. It’s the owners choice, they decide scope and approved of veto inclusion. I mean, I'm sure the OP knows what the grant is for and isn’t planning a new home cinema. 😁

    Different councils may have different requirements, but unless they provide those as clear instructions, then following appropriate accessibility guidelines is a pretty good place to start. In fact, at the upper end, those guidelines are far better then the typical install.

    and preferably not a wet room that will make the whole room a slip hazard if not done correctly.

    A wet room design is far far superior to a a step up tray. A tray is a trip hazard, and would be non-compliant with building regulations for accessibility. A properly designed wet room is not a slip hazard. "If not correctly" is an irrelevant concern, anything is an issue if not done correctly. The solution is to designed and construct things correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I have been through this process twice with two home adaptation grants for an extension.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

    I cannot stress enough the importance of having a professional overseeing all work and I say this from experience



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