Metrolink south of Charlemont

Was just having a look thorough the 2018 Green Line tie-in and Metro Upgrade report and was looking at the plans for the metro-idication of the existing stations and was very surprised to see that all will still feature a very tram-style at-grade pedestrian track crossing at both platform and ends. With the heavy emphasis on the removal of at-grade crossings for Metrolink due to it being driverless, this seems like an obvious contradiction…

Will platform screen doors be placed on the crossings maybe, only allowing pedestrians to cross when no train is present? For the planned frequency though, surely there’ll almost always be a train present or at least close enough to warrant the barriers to close…? Seems odd that this very light rail feature was kept for what will be an automatic and highly frequent metro service… Any thoughts from those more in the know?

Is there any detail on how the Green Line capacity upgrade would work, with extra Luas running Sandyford to Charlemont? Where exactly would the turnback at Charlemont be? Would it require an extra platform on the bridge, to avoid blocking other Luas while everyone gets off the terminating ones?

The latest designs had elevated pedestrian crossings with lifts I think.

Just a few ponderings on the GL - ML upgrade:

When (and I’m confidently saying when because it simply needs to happen and I firmly believe will happen) the Green Line is realigned along the N11 and the original alignment closed and upgraded to Metrolink, will there be a station at Ranelagh…? Plans seem to suggest there won’t but I feel that that’s a rather silly plan, as it is an important station in a dense area which is also filled with businesses and shops and not a whole lot of other transport connections. I know the plan is to surface the metro between Charlemont and Beechwood but I feel that a station (even a very shallow one, just about below street level) should be built in Ranelagh and would not compromise the rise out of the tunnel. There is a noticeable drop in gradient between Ranelagh and Beechwood station which itself will help the resurfacing while still allowing a flat station to be built in Ranelagh. Any thoughts…?

Secondly, (although less importantly) what will become of the existing viaduct track section between Charlemont and Ranelagh? Knocked for housing? Converted to a New York style elevated viaduct garden park…? Either seen attractive to me to be honest, but it’s just a thought that crossed my mind. Or, in fact, will a Luas connection (as either a spur off the Green Line or maybe as the end of a line from Lucan or elsewhere) be maintained between Harcourt and Ranelagh to provide a direct connection to the Metro there instead?

Finally, regarding the depot in Sandyford, it’s very likely that an N11 Luas route would run from the N11 down Brewery Road before rising to rejoin the Luas overbridge before Central Park, therefore an interchange station would likely be built where the road comes close to the depot. However seeing as how Metro will already have a large depot in Dardistown and will by unable to use the small and tightly-curved Sandyford tram depot, will it be kept for Luas? It would involve an awkward entrance. Instead, could the Sandyford Metrolink terminus be brought forward into the site to provide effectively a cross-platform interchange with GL services and direct access to Brewery Road? Would help to lengthen the already incredibly short distance between the Stillorgan and Sandyford stops. I presume another Green Line depot would be built in a greenfield site somewhere along the Bray extension too. And would the 4ft 8 1/2in track connection be maintained between Metro and Luas here? I think it should for potential interoperability and diversion purposes (unlikely but no harm in hanging onto it…)

Just a few random musings that crossed my mind. Thanks all

When (and I’m confidently saying when because it simply needs to happen and I firmly believe will happen) the Green Line is realigned along the N11 and the original alignment closed and upgraded to Metrolink, will there be a station at Ranelagh…?

No there won't be. The expense and disruption of mining out a station anywhere near the triangle could never be justified. But it bothers me also - especially as the station in Ranelagh is actually positioned in a very busy spot with potential for north/south and even east/west bus transfers. While many of the southern Green line stops are in fairly quiet and relatively inaccessible spots.

I've spent time before on here arguing that, if it were at all possible, that they should have considered having the tie-in north of the canal in Peter Place even it meant considerable disruption involving a stretch of cut n' cover down the middle of Earlsfort terrace and some private house CPOs in Peter Place. Something like this was considered during one of the old MN options documents. I don't think my arguments succeeded in changing many minds back then so I won't go into it again but the loss of Ranelagh as a metro station (once the original plan was was scuppered by the "discovery" of the sewer pipe) was a big motivation.

If we can barely handle a housing crisis, how in the world can we make a metro? There are too many issues currently going on, and we are already paying well over €2bn for a hospital. Surely the money from the Government is gonna run-out at any point during the construction of the Metro…

What about BusConnects? Dublin is a cramped city compared to London, so there is no point for a Metro here. If you want to make something like this, the middle of Ireland is a good idea. You need lots of land.

It's like saying Luas needs a blue line. The Green Line is cramped from 8.00 AM to 9.00 AM in the Dundrum region, and also from 3.00 to 4.00 PM when students are coming back from school on the Kilmacud stop.

I just feel like Ireland is going too crazy on these transport projects, we don't have space for this, given that the Luas can't even go to Swords or something.

Very confused as to what your point is here… The Green Line south of Charlemont is desperately cramped for large portions of the day in many areas, upgrading this section of the line to a driverless high-capacity Metro that runs every 90 seconds is a pretty obvious solution to that… And what is the Luas Blue Line?? New Luas lines will be needed and will be constructed over the next few decades, and while I agree with you that Bus Connects is very much needed, it and new Luas and Metro routes go hand in hand and compliment each other. And your argument that Dublin is more cramped than London is just even more case for Metro, rather than busses. A metro is an underground/completely segregated high capacity railway that can carry huge amounts of people very frequently through areas where it is otherwise extremely difficult to provide mass transit in the form of a bus or tram. Where in the middle of the Ireland do you suggest is anywhere near dense enough to warrant the construction of a Metro? And you need waaaay less land by far to build a Metro than to build any other form of transit corridor, so again, I am confused by your point here…

And yes, this is something that confused me for a while, the 2018 Luas Green Line Tie-In Study recommends a stop at Ranelagh in may of its appraisal options, be it extending the platforms at the current Ranelagh stop or building a new underground stop there depending on the tie-in location. The 2018 Green Line Metro Upgrade Study also backs up having a Metro stop at Ranelagh with extensions being provided to the current platforms.

However, the 2019 Jacob's Metro Constructability Report recommends a tie-in between Beechwood and Cowper, with an elevated Luas stop being built north of Dunville Avenue and a Metro stop directly beneath this (just about below ground level) with the Metro rising to grade south of Dunville Avenue. This is also the only of the reports that acknowledges the driverless heavier-rail nature of Metrolink as opposed to the tram-style nature of Metro North, recommending raising platform heights, adding platform screen doors and passenger under/overpasses. It's well worth a read in relation to this project

https://www.metrolink.ie/media/ox0p3cjb/constructabilityreportgreenlineclosure.pdf

Hope that helps with the confusion :)

I haven’t been following the Metrolink saga for a while, are they still talking about a driverless/automated fleet? I assume procurement for the units is still a way off yet.

On a slightly unrelated note, and the ship has probably sailed for this especially since a lot of the infrastructure has been destroyed, was it ever considered to reopen the Harcourt Street line to Bray for the DART? This probably would’ve been a better option than the Luas Green Line and would likely bring forward any plans for an underground system in Dublin, such as connecting Harcourt St to Broadstone.

One of the issues with the old Harcourt Street station was that it was too far from the city centre. In fact the original proposal would’ve had the terminus located on the southwest corner of St. Stephen’s Green.

An idea would be to return heavy rail including the DART to the Harcourt Street line, extend the terminus to St. Stephen's Green and develop that as an interchange between Metrolonk, Dart Underground and Luas Cross-City. The Green line would begin at St. Stephen's Green and terminate at Broombridge, which would be a link between a re-opened Broadstone station handling Galway/Sligo trains.

Maybe a bit far-fetched, but is very much possible. None of the buildings between the old Harcourt Street station and the southwest corner of St. Stephen's Green are listed, mostly newer office additions at the back of Georgian houses. A distance of 370m.