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Emmanuel Macron dissolves French parliament and calls snap elections

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,033 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Looking at some of the "how to destroy your economy and make everyone poor" proposals from the NPF

    • Price controls
    • 90% tax on 400k plus
    • Lowering retirement age to 60

    Glad they kept the far right out, but the far left really do live in some sort of magical alternative reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Who are the "other 2" parties that "received far more seats" in this fantasy you have in your head? Do explain.

    The New Popular Front is not a party, but an alliance of them, as the graph you posted demonstrates, listing their seats individually.

    You've been caught out again, misrepresenting between party and alliance as it suits you, in a self serving argument, trying to cling to something from the political faction you support coming 3rd.

    Macron's alliance of parties got more seats than the RN alliance of parties, 148 to 142.

    Macron's Renaissance party, as an individual party, got the 2nd highest number of seats, 103.

    It was in the graph you posted in Post #307. Therefore, it is clear that establishes the claim as a bad faith argument.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭amandstu


    And there is more to unpopularity than numbers. There is also the depth of unpopularity wherein we can truly despise a party that has its roots in JMLePen for whom the concentration camps in the last world war were a "detail in history" ,where their candidates are recently seen sporting Nazi hats and ,in all likelihood (a long time since I was in France) odious racist attitudes lurk beneath the surface or perhaps above the surface.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not quite what the article says is it?

    While Moshe Sebbag certainly did not welcome the New Popular Front victories, he ultimately lamented about the mainstreaming of antisemitism in general.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Strange, earlier on the thread, you were supporting RN and here you claim to be concerned about anti-semitism. So I guess you are switching your support to Macron now?

    And yet, one of the people interviewed in an article you referenced says:

    In an interview in Paris, the writer and philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy said: “All the Jews I know agree they will of course never vote for France Unbowed, and they will never vote for Marine Le Pen.”

    When it came to RN, he said: “There is absolutely no evidence of a deep change on the matter of antisemitism.”

    RN, originally named Front National, was co-founded by Le Pen’s father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, who is well known for his antisemitic remarks. He has been convicted several times of contesting crimes against humanity, including for his claims that the gas chambers used to kill Jews during the Holocaust were only a “detail” of history… Even after its rebranding, RN has continued to face repeated scandals, including election candidates making allegedly antisemitic remarks.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/06/french-jewish-people-second-round-elections-antisemitism-voting-choices

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And Ireland has Israeli Ambassadors that makes similarly outlandish claims, it doesn't say a whole lot. An opposition to Israeli foreign policy does not amount to antisemitism. Meanwhile Marine was raised by a noted Holocaust Denier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Being raised by a holocaust denier does not make their offspring one also, it is not some sort of hereditary thing passed down through generations you know.

    The main concern for the French people now is the eagerness of the radical left fanatics to increase uncontrolled immigration into France nevermind reduce it. Macron also joining up with them must horrify the vast majority of French citizens into their futures and serious questions need asking why are doing so against the will of the vast majority of the public.

    The vast majority of people throughout Europe are asking the very same questions of their leaders and voices are going to get louder and louder.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's always "When", not "If" with the far right. Always.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Is Jean Marie Le Pen a holocaust denier and an anti-semite?

    He founded the party, and the party contains many members and representatives from his time as leader.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I mean if you take over the party run by an anti semite it is going to be pretty tough to make your case.

    Not just anti semitism they have plenty of candidates that are racist including stating that Northern Africans should not hold high office. They did force the nazi cap candidate to step down but as long as these incidents keep happening in large numbers with candidates they have little chance of removing the racist tag.

    Of course the far right will always have the issue that they will attract racists and not many racists are smart enough to keep the quiet part quiet

    https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-france-elections-2024-national-rally-paris-jordan-bardella-emmanuel-macron-europe/#:~:text=French%20investigative%20journalism%20outlet%20Mediapart,its%20support%20from%20their%20campaigns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,650 ✭✭✭amandstu


    So is the tactical electoral pact over now?

    The groups that signed up to it have now gone their own ways or formed new alliances?

    I see Macron has rejected the resignation of his PM.Would that perhaps be because he wants to see who is the first to pull the plug on his now minority administration?

    Apparently Macron's father has said that his decision to call those snap elections was made in advance of the bad European elections.

    Is he a master schemer? He does have the eyebrows to go with that aptitude.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,618 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Macron's letter is an invitation to the moderate left to dump the far left and join him. The problem is that he's is in the position of the boy who cried wolf, because he promised during previous second round campaigns (particularly during the 2022 legislatives) that if the left supported his candidates so as to block Marine Le Pen, he would listen to their concerns and run a more left wing government. Once elected of course, he did nothing of the sort.

    His advantage of course is that the left wing coalition is a shaky structure which presumably won't last long as it is anyway, so there will be a temptation for some if the posts offered are big enough.

    My guess - and that's all it is - is that it is too soon for the left's coalition to break up, but it will happen sooner or later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    This is fairly standard stuff in French politics. These arrangements are called electoral alliances rather than coalitions becuse, well, they're not coalitions; they're electoral alliances. The agreement is for co-operation in relation to an election, usually a specific election — co-ordination of candidates, and agreement on a common platform for the election. There is no agreement on going into government together after the election. In French political culture, negotiations on the formation of a government happen after the election, not before. This is because negotiations on government will nearly always involve other parties, who were not included in the electoral alliance, and they will always include the President of the Republic, who appoints the Prime Minister.

    While an electoral alliance, if successful, might form the basis for an agreement on government after the election, it often doesn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    Is there anything more likely to crash and burn quicker than a far left coalition . In fact, it wont even get past the first meeting. In France or any other country for that matter .



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Not only is it not a coalition, but it's also not far left. It's a broad-left electoral alliance;member parties range from pretty far-left to barely left-of-centre, and there are also ecologists, regionalists, autonomists, progressivists and even a few libertarians. What could possibly go wrong?

    (The answer, we now know, is not much, since the electoral alliance has already achieved its primary goal. The whole point of an electoral alliance is to do well in an election. There's a bit of a clue in the name.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Looks like the radical left are calling for protests and talk of action ahead of the Olympics which start in 2 weeks. One thing for certain is a lack of torches won't be complained about.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Another church on fire, some bad luck they have with them this last few years

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Oh I am going to need evidence that all those churches were destroyed. Otherwise I am going to assume you are posting random nonsense from a very nonsense looking account.

    Edit: turns out the map is a lie and isn't even particularly recent. Your post is just nonsense. If there is a serious issue it can be detailed without counting "man interrupts mass" as a destroyed church. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/churches-destroyed-in-france/



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,582 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Their claims have no credibility. It is obvious they don't read the articles they are link dumping or grabbing headlines from.

    They totally misrepresented an article about anti-semitism and missed the bits where it was critical of their favoured far right party. Ignored questions put to them about the anti-semitism of Le Pen (both of them).

    Demonstrates their concern about anti-semitism to be entirely a charade.

    In an interview in Paris, the writer and philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy said: “All the Jews I know agree they will of course never vote for France Unbowed, and they will never vote for Marine Le Pen.”

    When it came to RN, he said: “There is absolutely no evidence of a deep change on the matter of antisemitism.”

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So the map you linked to was bullshit firstly, secondly have you read your own link? There's literally loads of different reasons listed including the fact that the buildings are poorly maintained. Other reasons include buildings simply no longer being used as churches.

    "He continued: “Fires are also sharply increasing because buildings are more and more dilapidated, and this negligence also attracts a lot of thefts of paintings, statues, or gold chalices...”"



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,010 ✭✭✭Christy42


    If people make stuff up to claim something is a serious problem then they will have no credibility.

    Stuff like the map is an obvious red flag. That is a crazy number for actually destroyed churches and would have made headlines. That should send red flags about the information that it should be verified.

    Maybe check who you are trusting for your information even if they agree with your preconceptions.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Is this all you can do? Crap out dodgy links to absolute scutter?

    I'll believe this when I see proof.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,927 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    He had no credibility left (at least to anyone who has read output for the last few years).

    To give just one tiny example, which fits with your comment on antisemitism…he's apparently a Le Pen supporter, very concerned about muslim immigration to Europe and rising hatred towards Jews in France on here; but…posts vile anti semitic conspiracy theories and praises attacks of + boosts propaganda of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists (Houthis) over there (different threads!).🤡



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,683 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Try google.com Just type in things like "churches burnt down in France", "terrorist attacks in French churches". You need to find out yourself about these things and do your own research. Spend 20 minutes on it and you will get the picture.

    There will be hundreds of links to them considering the massive rise in numbers of these events over the last few years. The Notre Dame Cathedral in Rouen was built over a thousand years ago, so sad to see this heritage going up in flames.

    “The earth is littered with the ruins of empires that believed they were eternal.”

    - Camille Paglia



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    So you linked to a tweet that amounted to a lie. Then an article that explicitly said there was numerous reasons for the decline. Instead you tried to lob it all on Muslims which in reality is not the case. The article you linked to actually points to the state neglecting the buildings and the issue of them falling apart was warned as far back as the seventies. You've googled it but still struggled to back up the rather xenophobic agenda that you're pushing.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,861 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No. It's your argument and it's not my role to spoonfeed you.

    The tweet looks like drivel so I'm going to dismiss it as such.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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