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Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭ljsulster


    McKee joined at the same time. Was promoted last year a year early onto a development deal



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭launish116


    If Saunderson has been let go, further concern on the prop depth chart!

    Wasn't overly impressed with McKee few times I've saw him.

    Ulster being Ulster going into a new season with one hand tied behind their backs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Ulster playing the Queensland Reds at Ravenhill next February.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Delighted to see both Izzy and Timoney travelling to SA, but feel for McCann, who has been our best back rower all season. They're all different kinds of player, I realise.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,796 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Izuchukwu presumably picked over McCann as he can cover 2nd row. Ireland are only bringing 3 out-and-out second rows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭launish116


    Really harsh on McCann!

    More worryingly our only real fit senior Tighthead is travelling as a loosehead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Unfortunately, Saunderson has had to retire due to concussions.

    https://ulster.rugby/content/ulster-rugby-confirm-george-saundersons-retirement



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Gutted for him. He looked like a good operator, but more importantly, I hope he doesn't have any long-term effects.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    Is this now confirmed? That O'Toole is converting to LH?

    I wonder is this a wise move. I don't think he's ever played there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭launish116


    Only Porter, Healy travelling, read Ireland have been trying him out there already this year.

    Three Tightheads travelling.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Did anybody else watch the Champions Cup draw? Bloody hell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Toulouse

    Bordeaux

    Sharks

    Exeter Chiefs

    Leicester Tigers

    Ulster



  • Administrators Posts: 53,796 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Yea we're screwed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Sorry - dunno what happened with formatting there. Only team we won't play is the Sharks



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,802 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    If we win any match I'll be surprised.

    Ideally we get Leicester and Exeter at home.

    Hopefully we're away to Toulouse as I don't think we'd beat them at home in any scenario at the moment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,297 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Leaving Toulouse aside as they are a level above every team at the moment, a guy was on a podcast before the Leinster game saying Toulouse had learned from their mistakes and don't take the group stages as granted anymore, win all the games and get home semis etc

    SHould be able to beat Sharks and Exeter away, maybe Leicester

    At home, all the teams and even Bordeaux if ulster are playing well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    We don't play Sharks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I think it's at home to one English team and away to the other.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,796 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It wasn't like that for us last year, we played both French teams at home and both English teams away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    I’ve always wanted to go to an away game in France and I’m long overdue a holiday. Toulouse would be a great place to visit despite the inevitable score line



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I think this article is worrying from an Ulster pov;

    https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2024/0710/1459146-irfu-to-block-niq-front-row-signings-after-this-season/

    Humphreys confirming that Farrell wants TOT to play LH. How much he will play LH for Ulster remains to be seen but surely to be able to cover the position at international level, he'll need a lot of game time there. He's also saying that NIQ front-rows won't be signed.

    Andy [Farrell] can't go out and sign foreign players, so we have got to find ways to make sure that, yes, we have a national responsibility, but that starts with the provinces and the pressure will be on them: 'You have got to deliver those players to make you be competitive’

    I think this is pretty stupid tbh. Ulster took a guy who wasn't picked up elsewhere and he is now an international TH. It is pretty unfair for the IRFU to then decide that they want him at LH, you can't sign a NIQ replacement so you can get into a bidding war for the few available IQ THs for next season. He then says it's up to Ulster to solve the problem he is creating for them and has decided to add extra constraints also; 'You have got to deliver those players to make you be competitive’.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ulster may have come round to that decision themselves with Wilson's emergence, though that's putting a lot of pressure on a baby prop.

    Must be annoying to be told what to do though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    TOT was a big prospect at underage, he was brought in from Australia, he wasnt some sort of unknown overlooked player that Ulster developed into an intl.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,976 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    On the other hand, continuing to keep doing the same thing as we've been doing in terms of prop development isn't an option either, and it won't come as a shock to anyone in Ulster that supplying players to the national team is one of their main functions. Like, I genuinely can't remember the last Ulster, Munster or Connacht native to come through in any meaningful way at either LH or TH, unless I'm missing someone obvious.

    We have to try something like. For all Healy's quality, the guy can't have much left in him.

    You'd imagine to get Kitshoff here on a megabucks (allegedly) 3-year deal, they had to make a pretty convincing argument to IRFU about how the cupboard is bare at LH, so maybe they're happy enough to give TOT a run there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't think it really matters to the IRFU how it happened, what matters to them is that they have players of sufficient quality available for the national team. They then deciding that they have enough THs and that TOT should move to LH as it suits them is a bit much. Why not Bealham, he's nearing the end of his career anyway, or Jager?

    The issue really is that a replacement TH is going to be very diffiicult to find if Ulster can't look at NIQ players. Leinster are signing Slimani despite having a decent depth-chart. The no NIQ rule will mean they will be hoarding front-rowers from now on. Slimani would be perfect for Ulster as a replacement for TOT and facilitating Wilson's development.

    The current policy will likely lead to Wilson getting flogged which could hamper his development. If Wilson is ripping it up for Ulster, I'm sure Farrell will take him into Ireland squads which means less availability for Ulster. Ulster look to be getting the thin end of the wedge in every respect.

    Humphreys is pushing the problem onto the provinces but I think the national team management need to be actively part of the solution too. Farrell needs to bring a few young LHs into his squad, even if they aren't at international standard yet, the national team management can help them get there. Sticking with Healy and playing Porter 70+ minutes only prolongs the problem. It's the same at SH, Farrell should be helping to develop Doak, god knows McFarland wasn't going to do it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    On another topic, talk on another thread that Sammy Arnold could be available. Ulster should try to get him, need more centre cover.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Was Arnold with Ulster at one point, before joining Connacht, Munster, Connacht, Munster etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Yes spent season in academy with Ulster after coming through exiles programme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭FtD v2


    Claiming "Ulster are getting the thin end of the wedge in every respect" is a big stretch.

    TOT is presumably open to switching position, as he's being told his Ireland prospects are better at LHP. I don't know for sure if that's the case, but it looks logical. He had a great season in the Grand Slam campaign back in 2023, but has struggled to make much impact for Ireland since, and Jager's emergence has probably nudged him further down the depth chart. Jager is never going to much to LHP as he is far bigger than TOT and less mobile/dynamic. As you say, Bealham is near the end of his career, so what would be the point of him switching now?

    Ulster have had absolutely no shortage of NIQs for a long long time, and, simply put, for the talent available to them underage, are not producing enough players for the Irish team.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Well this is probably the first time Ulster have had a good depth-chart at TH but that could be taken away. That coinciding with a ban on NIQ front-rows makes it very difficult to add depth (apart from the majority of pro rugby players being removed as options, the IQ ones are going to be harder to get). That's definitely getting the thin end of the wedge.

    Bealham switching across is unlikely to have a negative effect on his career, this could be his final contract either way. He previously played LH so not a big switch for him. Connacht also have Aungier and Illo, neither of whom are currently not being lost to Ireland squads. Given Bealham's age and Furlong's age and injury record (plus Lions tour to come), it's not hard to foresee a situation where Ireland need TOT at TH in a couple of years.



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