FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

There's a reason you didn't quote me, quoting that, because I never did. I never confused sexual assault with this latest assault carried out by McGahon. Stop lying to defend a drunken bully who put his hands on woman.

He put his arm around a woman he didn't know.

After the argument ended, he followed them to pick it up again.

He lied to the Garda and was found out via CCTV.

This is who Harris is 'Happy' to have as a candidate in the upcoming GE. That's the problem. Harris is a hypocrite, as is McEntee for that matter.

Harris spoke on gender based assault, sexual assault and Harris also said:

TAOISEACH SIMON HARRIS said that he wanted to acknowledge the actions of Natasha O’Brien, the young woman who was the victim of a vicious assault and whose attacker received a fully suspended sentence.

Speaking on The Anton Savage Show, the Taoiseach said that her refusal to remain quiet following the conclusion of Cathal Crotty’s trial, has led to a number of essential follow-up actions in combatting gender-based violence.

He also said that he was unhappy with the response that the government received from the Defence Forces.

When asked, the Defence Forces said that 68 serving members were convicted or currently before the courts. Harris said that a zero-tolerance approach must be taken.

Now know that the 68 are convicted for assault, gender based assault, drugs etc.

https://www.thejournal.ie/natasha-obrien-simon-harris-defence-forces-6423045-Jun2024/

“Zero tolerance should mean zero tolerance. That stretches to the barstools, the WhatsApp groups, the workplace, the football clubs and the newspaper columns.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/taoiseach-urges-men-to-play-part-in-changing-attitudes-towards-women-in-ireland-1645501.html

“There has to be clearly no tolerance for the kind of behaviour that came forward in the courts, particularly last week.

Meanwhile, Mr Harris said he was eager to meet with Ms O’Brien, but said he may need to wait until all legal processes are complete.

I don't believe you.

You don't care. It's just because Mary Lou McDonald played a role and was thanked. I'll tell you how I know this:

"Thank you, Deputy McDonald, for bringing the case of Tori to my attention," he said. "I'm not directly appraised of the situation, but I'm very happy to be directly appraised of it now."

He said that he would work with the deputy "to intervene and see how we can support an Irish citizen in what sounds to be - based on what you tell me - the most appalling circumstances".

………

“We want Tori Towey back in this country, we want her back home in Roscommon,” Harris said.

“No effort will be spared by us, by Ireland, to make progress on this matter, to get Tori home. She’s not a criminal, she’s a victim of gender-based violence.”

They were two days at it. Then the tik tok Taoiseach practically live streamed it.

“I’ve just been informed that the travel ban has been lifted, that the embassy will take Tori to the airport as soon as she is ready to go and that the embassy, of course, will continue to follow up on the case, which is still active as of now,” Mr Harris told the Dáil on Wednesday afternoon.

Harris gets a pass because you support the.. Green party.

I have no interest in the back & forth. I only responded to this because a few posters lied about what had happened.

As they have nothing else to post about I expect this to be posted another 20-30 times over the next few weeks.

The Commandant was duty bound. Harris is a hypocrite.

Speaking out on the Natasha O'Brien assault and assault in general was good, but it was just empty worded PR. Like Harris' promise about the scoliosis waiting list

McGahon is Fine Gael family. His uncle was a FG TD. Also he was told not to run in 2020, but he did anyway. He lost. After defying FG HQ, FG made him a senator.

And here he is, put up as a candidate again, after a drunken assault. He's lucky the woman didn't press charges.

It's obvious he can do no wrong in the eyes of Fine Gael.

Firstly if you vote for something you lose all right to complain about it IMO (or at least without being called a hypocrite). As I said before you can't have the Selma killing policy without the Bart killing policy. April is bonus month in our company, and colleagues always complain about only keeping 48% of it. Despite the "SF will be worse" mantra (which I hear a number of the same people trot out), none say "phew, only 52% gone up in smoke, it'd be at least 4pts worse under SF". My response is always simply "you voted for it, suck it up and maybe remember this next time you've a polling card in your hand".

The irony of course is if a person really does want right of centre/New PDs type party the worst, most counterproductive thing they can do is vote for FG. As you correctly say FG faces no threat from the right, only option is to force them right. Tell them politely but forcefully on the doorstep why you won't vote FG and then follow through and don't vote for FG. The less seats they get - the more likely the party or a new party (probably made up of ex FG TDs) emerges and goes right of centre economically.

Many many people do want more right of centre however they simply want that party to emerge without them doing anything - then they'll vote for it. They have a few options 1) start a party or run for election themselves (unrealistic for most people) 2) put up: vote in a way that tries to force a party or parties to the right economically 3) shut up

Unfortunately most people aren't prepared to put up, but then refuse to shut up. The "least left" nonsense is just that, nonsense. There won't be a fully SF + alphabet soup commie/PBP government (numbers aren't there - FF would probably be involved in any government involving SF). So anything not involving FG will still be broadly similar to what we have now - high tax, high spend, big state. In any case maybe we need a period of SF in government to derive an actual right/left divide in Irish politics.

I have no confidence that will happen, no confidence many people will vote along the lines of what they claim to want. I only have one vote, there isn't much I can do; but at least when the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why

I agree with both of you in that voting for FG and then complaining because they behave like FG is a waste of energy, however it is impossible to teach FG (or FF for that matter) a lesson, they will always be what they are.

After the crash FF tried to blame everyone but themselves. FG got in under the lie of doing things differently. If neither party learned from a massive historic economic crash, if neither decided to do anything differently, if neither will change policies despite creating and maintaining crises and refusing to stamp out cronyism and fraud/forgetfulness within their own ranks, they are what they are. You can either vote for them and accept that or vote for them and cover for all their very many flaws to try fool yourself and others that they aren't what they are.

FF/FG becoming partners is the most obvious sign that the country does not come first. FG went into government with FF, a party who FG spent decades lambasting, same with FF. If FF were so bad, how the hell is partnering with them a good move for Ireland? To be fair to FF, FG have out played them on the crony, forgetful side of things.

Nowhere did I say vote for other parties, or indeed any party. I can't tell other people what to do, but here's what I will do. There's not a single party in the country that in anyway get even close to resembling my ethos. Not within an asses roar. I won't vote for any of them.

My way is to vote (non racist, non loony) Independent. IMO this is the only way to send FG a message

Worst case scenario: my independent of choice is not elected or wallows on the opposition side of the house. We continue to get high tax, high spend, big state. When the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why

Almost best case scenario:my independent of choice is bribed to help form a government. We continue to get high tax, high spend, big state. when the knock on the door comes I can say with a straight face that I don't vote FG and why. But I might actually benefit from all the out of control government spending via a bit of old fashioned parish pump (Healy-Rae/Tony Gregory style)

Best case (but very unlikely) scenario: FG loses the maximum amount of seats possible to said independents. A party analysis shows that there is an appetite for right of centre, party moves that way. Or a new PD Nua party emerges. I start to vote for that party. When the knock on the door comes I say I'm voting for them and why - but I won't be fooled twice if they fail to deliver

To be fair, there's a heap of people who voted for FG in 2020 who wouldn't have countenanced giving them a preference if it brought FF back into government.

@Loafing Oaf

"But unless the Independents in question are explicitly advocating the kind of fiscal policies you favour I don't see how voting for them is sending the 'right' message to FG."

The message is simple - I'll tell a FG canvasser why I'll not vote FG, and then actually follow through and not vote FG and instead do what most people do: be selfish (in this instance vote and hope for parish pump)

"I don't see how the second part of this scenario follows from the first, any more than it would if FG were losing seats to FF or the 'soft left'."

It's unlikely - hence that's why I said it was in my post (remember I called it "Best case (but very unlikely) scenario"). A more likely scenario is "status quo + parish pump". I'll take that over the status quo + I don't benefit from fiscal irresponsibility that I'll end up paying for disproportionately if/when it goes tits up.

But fine - you seem to think economically right of centre people should settle for least left. Tbh I think more people will follow that path than mine; but they're hypocrites and as I said if (when really) they moan to me I'll tell them to stop moaning about getting what they voted for

This is my position - every time I post it your posts replying seem to be along the lines of "don't be silly lads - stick with FG" rather than advocating for following through on their (alleged) ethos so i'll not bother responding again.

Yeah "New Politics" has been great. Many FG TDs sailing off into the sunset sniggering at that con job. Not an ounce of reform but bucket loads of cronyism, corruption and waste all over our political system.

I never claimed I actually meant GNI.

I will continue to correct the lies posted here. You are calling out the same poster on his lies as I have been doing.

And would of been in an even worse mess if FG got into power in 07, I'm sure u won't argue with this cause u know you're a Green voter 😂

Did any party in 2007 have a massively different plan to FF?

The massive affect the crash would have across the World was not just limited to Ireland, none of the parties going into that election had a plan which would have made a blind bit of a difference to the situation we ended up in

Joan Burton and Richard Bruton, in their budget speeches in the couple of years running up to the 2007 general election warned that FF were wasting the Celtic Tiger riches. Remember McCreevy and his I'll spend it if I have it. That was routinely criticised by both opposition spokespersons.

Contrast that with the way that the current government is putting money aside into longer-term funds to pay for pensions etc. A very different approach. Lessons were learned.