UEFA Euro 2024: Mod Note Added 2/7/24

They have just announced French referee Letexier is getting the final, his 4th game at the Euros, as ref, and he's had Spain already.

Doesn't appear to be a nut job, which helps.

The penalty is a debatable one, but far from a farcical call or the likes of that. Had the game in the background but the ref seemed to buy a lot of England players falling over though, a couple of corners/frees for the Netherlands were then given as frees out for English players falling over which seemed soft to me.

I think England also played well and deserved to win, their path to the semi was fortuitous and you’d argue they were lucky to get to the semi final but on that viewing (admittedly not watching 100% of the game) they deserved the win last night.

Interesting that Spain have rotated a bit in the tournament and England have not at all really bar one midfielder per game for the first few games. Will they run out of juice Sunday?

The issue with the penalty is that week in and week out, those are never given.

All VAR has managed to do is highlight the inconsistencies in how the laws are applied.

I haven't seen a replay, but at the time I thought the Dutch player had both feet of the ground going into that. He got the ball first but was lucky it wasn't reviewed.

The 00s England had the players but they did not use a system to benefit those players. I think this is no more evident that when you look at the 02 Brazil side. They looked at their players and picked a system to get their best players playing in as close to their best position as possible.

Brazil had 2 all-timer fullbacks/Wingbacks and 3 of the most naturally gifted attacking players but none of them are really players who will hold the width. Their midfield had Gilberto Silva but then didn't really have a great partner.
They had Lucio at the back but again he didn't really have a great partner.
So they played with a back 3/5, pushed on the wing backs and let the attacking players have more freedom

England had 3 central midfield players who liked to attack the box and they tried to fit them into the same midfield without any holder/protector despite all 3 playing their best football with a more defensive-minded midfield partner beside them.

The talent was there - the management was not. England in the mid 00s should have played with a 5 man midfield and let 2 players support a striker to get the best out of 2 out of the 3 or they should have paired up the one they liked the best with a defensive-minded player if they really wanted to keep 2 strikers on the pitch.
But weak management couldn't leave any of them out, weak management couldn't switch away from Heskey as Owens partner and weak management couldn't drop Owen when Rooney came along so they failed time and again.

They picked the worst idea possible and tried to play Scholes as a left midfielder and pair Gerrard and Lampard in the middle without anyone beside them to let them do their thing.

Southgate started the tournament here with the same issues in picking a system not suited to get his best players into or as close to their best positions as possible but he has at least switched to a system that suits the players a bit better in the last 2 games. So credit where it is due there.

They should have done better than they did but England would have still lost out to France, Italy, Spain and Germany of that era.

Possibly, but they would have at least been able to give them a game with their best players in positions that suited them

442 with a Lampard/ Gerrard centre midfield partnership meant they never stood a chance against the better sides but I don't think the better sides were streets ahead either.

On paper France for sure was better - but they were also a bit mental and suspectable to a bust-up - see 2002 World Cup. Going out to Greece in Euro 2004 etc..
Germany was average enough but a team who made the best of their players between 2002 and 2006. Overachieved really
Spain were not the Spain they later became - a good side but one that was known for falling short at that stage despite the talent.
Italy - yeah a very good side. Had some of the best collection of defenders any international side has ever had in that era but again not unlike the French it could go totally wrong for them as well - see Euro 2004 when Denmark and Sweden got out of the group ahead of them.

Lets not forget that Greece ended up winning the Euros in 2004. That was a massive failure for all those sides to not win that tournament ahead of them

I don't think it's crazy to say that England had they setup correctly in 2004 could/maybe should have won that Euros.

All if and buts though

Yeah, think the same, Dumfries foot is moving to meet Kane's in the air, without getting the ball.

The only real grounds I see for not giving it is that there's usually a (really stupid) precedent that if the player 'gets their shot away' that late tackles don't give you anything. We see every week that a late tackle on a striker, that would be a foul if the player passed instead of shot, is for some reason totally fine if the player shoots at goal. That's the precedent that's been broken here - which is grand if that's how these incidents will be reffed going forward, but I doubt that will be the case. Come the start of the season we'll be back to lads sliding in late on a striker who's just shot, with nothing given.

ZeRoberto was a beast beside Gilberto Silva.

That's the way I see this too.

Their feet each went to the other - sure, Kane's was moving faster but both were moving towards each other, and of course Kane won the ball.

Yes but the contact was made by Kane. If he didn't follow through like he did there would not have been contact.

He then grabbed his shin like he'd been studded when his foot slid off the side of Dumfries' foot.

It's no foul, Kane was closer to committing a fouls than Dumfries.

I think that England in 1990 were the best of an average lot. If they hadn't f*cked up the penalty shoot out against West Germany, they would have beaten a poor enough Argentina side in the final.

England's first shot on target against Slovakia in the entire game was in the 95th minute. I am not having that categorised as resilience.

England's first shot on target in the second half against the Netherlands was in the 90th minute.

If either of these happens against Spain, then their "luck" will have run out.

Out of curiosity how much are tickets going for on the black market for the final? 5k? 10k? 20k?

Nice of you to explain the resilience

They were 16k for the semi!

This seems saucy, and you won't need me to translate

If Spain win the final, and Olmo scores like 2 goals and wins man of the match, carrying Spain as usual, will he be in Ballon D'or contention would we think?

And it prbably will happen

I don't know, he didn't start every game. Ruiz and Rodri would be more likely I think.

https://x.com/bwfc_archie5/status/1811387549929144721?s=46&t=M-EGdU8vr-bNuKyNUg6tmQ

how anyone can say Dumfries foot is not going into Kane and it’s just Kane’s move towards Dumfries is beyond me.

If you don’t think it’s a pen because of precedent well ok whatever but that it was Kane’s foot going into Dumfries and Dumfries foot is not going towards Kane’s foot , I mean no. That’s just wrong.